[throwawayyyz]

My point was that some people don't have a sense for proportions. I don't vaccinate my own kids. However, in the grand scheme of things, I think that most parents who vaccinate do more harm and put more people at risk, including their own, than my wife and I.

My kids are breast-fed. That means they have a stronger immune system and spread less disease. Kids who are fed formula contract more diseases and are therefore putting infants at risk of developing complications of flu, for example.

We don't drink. Alcohol-impaired drivers kill 30 people every day in the US. More than 10,000 people die every year because alcohol is legal.

I don't smoke. Cigarettes kill 450,000 smokers. As an added bonus, thanks to tobacco being legal and easily accessible, 50,000 people die just because of secondhand smoke exposure.

My wife doesn't smoke either. 2,000 babies die from SIDS in the US every year. Maternal smoking is the strongest risk factor leading to SIDS. Again, thank the tobacco companies.

My kids don't eat junk. They know not to touch soft drinks. Parents fill up their shopping carts with nasty candy and Coca Cola and so 17% of children and adolescents in the US are now obese. Oh, but wait, they vaccinated. Very responsible parents. Thousands of children die every year from obesity-related complications, including cancer, diabetes, and heart disease. But hey, at least they didn't have polio.

Measles is a concern because 50 kids had to be hospitalized last year for treatment? Big fucking deal. Really, big fucking deal. 150,000 and 300,000 annual cases of lower respiratory tract infections in infants and young children up to 18 months of age are attributable to secondhand smoke exposure. Between 7,500 and 15,000 result in hospitalization . Some of them die. Far more damage just from this societal fuckup of legalizing tobacco than any anti-vac parents will ever do.

I really respect and enjoy what folks on HackerNews have to say and this place is filled with very smart people. But when it comes to vaccines, personal health, pharmaceuticals and mega-corp-funded so-called science submissions here, I wonder what it is about tech folks that make them so brain washed.

[pyre]

So, the crux of your argument is, "You can't criticize me for not vaccinating my kids because other bad things happen that may or may not get the same amount of attention."

Also, you say this:

> I wonder what it is about tech folks that make them so brain washed.

But earlier you said this:

> My kids are breast-fed. That means they have a stronger immune system and spread less disease. Kids who are fed formula contract more diseases and are therefore putting infants at risk of developing complications of flu, for example.

Do you have a citation for any of this?

> Thousands of children die every year from obesity-related complications, including cancer, diabetes, and heart disease.

How many children die from heart disease caused by obesity? How many cases of childhood cancer are linked to obesity?

[throwawayyyz]

I'm saying that people on HN are quick to judge parents who don't vaccinate as if it's about to bring armageddon. Meanwhile, they themselves contribute to more harm to themselves as well as their kids and other people's kids. I have many friends and acquaintances who criticize me on a regular basis for not vaccinating (I only admit to it or even bring up the topic when asked directly), yet see no problem in giving their 5-year-old kids soft drinks or smoking while strolling their baby, or giving their kids Tylenol at the first mention of them not feeling well, etc. In fact, it's taboo to even question their parenting style, yet they have no problems telling me I'm evil.

"There are many ways that breastfeeding and breast milk protect babies’ health. Flu can be very serious in young babies. Babies who are not breast fed get sick from infections like the flu more often and more severely than babies who are breast fed." - http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/infantfeeding.htm

As for the stats for obesity-related deaths, best I could find right now is this article includes some useful stats and citations from the CDC: http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2011/may/31/rob-e...

[darkarmani]

> I have many friends and acquaintances who criticize me on a regular basis for not vaccinating (I only admit to it or even bring up the topic when asked directly), yet see no problem in giving their 5-year-old kids soft drinks or smoking while strolling their baby, or giving their kids Tylenol at the first mention of them not feeling well, etc.

None of those things are infectious. At least those harmful things come with a benefit. Choosing to not vaccinate your children doesn't even come with a benefit.

[res0nat0r]

I think people on HN are quick to judge because we happen to be technically/scientifically inclined, and not vaccinating your kids and discounting a hundred years of scientific research by people who've gotten degrees and dedicated their lives to the subject, just because you read some articles on the Internet is the problem.

[pyre]

> "There are many ways that breastfeeding and breast milk protect babies’ health. Flu can be very serious in young babies. Babies who are not breast fed get sick from infections like the flu more often and more severely than babies who are breast fed." - http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/infantfeeding.htm

Talking about "babies" here is too generic. Babies get antibodies from breast milk for maybe the first 4 ~ 5 months, but they don't after that, which is when talk of vaccines start.

[grannyg00se]

I have the same type of tendency to make hype sanity checks. I like to go to traffic deaths. Around 35,000 per year in the US. So that sets the bar for what we are willing to accept. Measles seriously affects 1500 people per year. It really doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

But just because some things are worse than others doesn't mean we should ignore the lesser threats. We should do what we can for all threats.

Also, if my kid dies of measles it isn't going to matter that cigarettes and alcohol or anything else is worse for society. Or that my own neglect through diet had set the child on the path to obesity. What's going to matter is that your kid brought measles into the school and caused my kid to die mere days later. That then translates into you having killed my kid because you think you're better than everyone else. It's not a good situation. It'll go over just as well as if you had killed my kid because you drank irresponsibly.