[codeka]

Somewhat interesting, perhaps, is the fact that this page itself has the following markup:

    <main id="content" class="group" role="main">
        <div class="main">
        ...

I, too, have tried to use semantic markup. Unfortunately, except for the most straight-forward of layouts, it's very hard to do. Though I guess there was also a time when non-table-based layouts was considered harder than it was worth...

[mmatants]

Semantic = for developers. I.e. not in the "make it nice for web crawlers" sense, but for readability of template code.

So for my own workflow, I have been quite comfortable being a "semantic stickler", where markup is written first and with only a general wireframe. CSS classes are added sparingly, to mark separate areas of concern for LESS/SCSS grouping. And then styling work begins, during which I try to avoid adding presentational fluff to markup at all costs. It's hard, but CSS3 allows a surprising amount of power.

The rule of thumb is: clean template code is worth dirty CSS hacks. CSS is going to be shit anyway, due to its inherent qualities as a language. So might as well make templates awesome.

And again, this is for developers' sanity more than anything to do with "semantic web" or whatever.

[Swizec]

Arguably most modern websites might as well be using tables considering how they use divs.

[grandalf]

yes. this is an under-appreciated fact.