[hrktb]

I am pro vaccination for anything that has sufficient maturity (high proof of action/low enough risk).

For the sake of the point, I'll just put out that vaccination is for the good of the community, but this community might not fully commit to support members who react badly to vaccines.

I don't refer to direct health concerns if something goes bad, but on the long term effects when there is some disability left. You'll vaccinate your kid to protect others as well, but if his lever doesn't stand it and became diabethic, you'll have a hard time finding schools that will provide assistance towards kids with special needs.

If a vaccine has a 1% chance of going awry, commiting to do what it takes to support the 1% "unlucky" ones would help a lot lowering the resistance toward vaccines.

[samatman]

In a conversation like this, it's important to discount hypothetical risks. Vaccination has been around for a long time. Hypothetically, there could be one with a 40% risk of long-term disability. But there isn't.

Show me an example of disability caused by vaccination (they exist), complete with a percentage estimate of how many people will suffer. Then we can talk about the associated costs.

[hrktb]

I think you are looking at this from a statistical point of view, where you balance the risk for the group and what might happen to one person. I understand this point.

What I am saying is that from an individual point of view, people won't react the same if you tell them:

A - "Your kid has a 1 in 800 million have it bad, it should be OK but if it's not, tough luck, you deal with it"

B - "Your kid has a really small chance to suffer from it, but it's for the group. If it goes bad the group will do everything to support you and your kid"

I'd really wish it would more of the B pattern, and that everyone would be on the same page, not fearing to have to mildly go through hell if they hit the vaccine lottery. You talk about associated costs, I think some of the people refusing vaccines feel that the main cost (and that not just financial cost) in case of failure will be on them, not on the general population. You can agree or disagree, but that's a point of view that is too often overlooked I think.

[dalke]

'''B - "Your kid has a really small chance to suffer from it, but it's for the group. If it goes bad the group will do everything to support you and your kid'''

To be fair, that's why the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act was passed, though there are limitations:

> to be eligible to file a claim, the effects of the person’s injury must have: 1) lasted for more than 6 months after the vaccine was given; or 2) resulted in a hospital stay and surgery; or 3) resulted in death.

For examples, if you get the measles vaccine and within 4 hours go into anaphylactic shock, then it's presumed to be caused by the vaccine. If in the month after getting the chicken pox vaccine you start suffering from chronic arthritis, then again it's presumed that the vaccine caused the condition.

In those cases you can be paid (quoting from http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/84521booklet.pdf ):

• a reasonable amount for past and future nonreimbursable medical, custodial care, and rehabilitation costs, and related expenses (There is no limit on the amount a person with an injury may be paid for these types of expenses. Payments are based on your vaccine injury needs.);

• up to $250,000 for actual and projected pain and suffering;

• lost earnings; and/or

• reasonable lawyers’ fees and other legal costs or legal costs, not fees, of petitioners representing themselves, if your claim was filed on a reasonable basis and in good faith.