[__--__]

you are not a coder unless other coders say you are

Not everybody needs the approval of an external entity. I couldn't care less what other coders think of me. What I ship speaks for itself. What I write speaks for itself. What studies scientists publish speak for themselves. The rest is politics.

[seanmcdirmid]

Scientists must pass peer review to publish, and peer review can be very harsh. Double blind helps winnow out political bias.

Coders must get jobs to continue coding if they are not independently wealthy. Bias abounds in this case, as other coders with influence must vouch for you, and...in this case your projects can influence their opinion of you.

We are social creatures: we don't live as hermits (most of us anyways).

[benched]

It was still an inflammatory thing to say, given that there's nothing stopping a person who does live as a hermit from learning to write working code.

In the days before the Web, I created two good-sized adventure games without ever having interacted with another programmer (save maybe 2 book authors). Nobody vetted me. I just made and released them. The lone wolf programmer has always been a thing.

[lifeisstillgood]

I think there is a confusion between trying to define the line between scientist / non-scientist or coder / Non-coder (Which is difficult to the point of impossible) and the ability for someone who is already a scientist to look at the work of another and decide if it is the work of a scientist

This is why I use the term software literacy. My son is learning to read. He can write is own name and letters, read some words phonetically. All of those things are necessary but not sufficient. But he is not (yet :-) literate. Will it be at ten words ? A hundred? A thousand? Those are silly arbitrary cut offs.

Anyone of us here can tell the difference between literate and illiterate because we have passed through that gateway.

The same goes for scientist or programmer.

But actually trying to write down the exact definition, the point one passes from being able to write a line of executable code and becomes a real programmer? Becomes software literate? Can't do it. Which is also why you can't measure productivity (plus all the reasons Robert Austin has)

[jared314]

I think you are talking about something different. I can practice basic medicine, but no one would call me a doctor. And, no person would accept me calling myself a doctor without some form of external validation that they believed was valid. I can build software, but being a programmer for someone else requires being validated, even minimally, by something external to myself. Even if the validating entity and the person looking to validate me are the same.

[officemonkey]

100 years ago, in many places on this earth, you could very well have passed yourself off as a doctor. The reason you can't now is because other doctors and governments decided to enforce a minimum standard.

100 years from now, perhaps there will be "Licensed Professional Programmer" certifications. Until then, you're a professional programmer if someone pays you. Even if that someone is yourself.

[seanmcdirmid]

But if you are working alone as a hermit, why do titles even matter? Titles are just something someone uses to classify you, and in isolation mean nothing (unless you have split personalities; joking, schizophrenia is a serious subject).

[foobarbazqux]

The psychiatric definition of schizophrenia doesn't have anything to do with split or multiple personalities. That's actually more like dissociative identity disorder. I know this is a widespread misconception, I used to think the same thing.

[abc_lisper]

> The rest is politics.

Really. No reality check? Spinning a wheel doesn't cause anything in particular, unless it meets the road.

Now I am not saying what you are saying is totally false. The truth is more nuanced, or say, more qualified.

The qualification comes from achieving something in the real world. If you can achieve something by talking to someone instead of writing code to work around it, both are equally valid.

I think of it like this. A pure function does not do any real work. The real work comes from the side effect it causes, the global variable it sets, the file it writes to, the program it talks to on the other end.

So yeah. You can cocoon yourself saying lalalalala, but you don't want to be the thread that spawned, did something to its local variables and exited. Whats the point of such a life anyways?

[__--__]

You need to stop putting words in my mouth.

The context of my statement is in regards to self identification vs community identification. I write code, I release apps and I get paid. Why do I need a community to call me a coder before I can be considered one? What other people think of me, what image I put forth, etc is all marketing and politics. The only real evidence of me as the coder is what I ship. Does it scale? Does it have bugs? Does it work? That's the reality check, not whether Steve from SuperFrog Backup Solutions saw my code on github and thinks I write an elegant monad.

If you can achieve something by talking to someone instead of writing code to work around it, both are equally valid.

Nothing I wrote disputes that.

So yeah. You can cocoon yourself saying lalalalala, but you don't want to be the thread that spawned, did something to its local variables and exited. Whats the point of such a life anyways?

Consider this: a man spends a lifetime writing novels. He thinks of himself as a writer, he identifies himself as a writer and he introduces himself as a writer. He never publishes, but he's always producing. One day, his house burns down, killing him and destroying everything he's ever written. Do you think his life was wasted? Do you think he thought his life was wasted?