[unz]

Doesn't this guy realize that asking for money they way he did with flex funding defies logic. If you only raise some of the money, how were expecting to finish the project, and what about the people who gave you money - you just scammed them. He still hasn't paid them back yet, instead saying he owes them a game!

Trying not to be harsh, but this guy is obviously clueless - built his own game engine - maybe he should've started by wiring together his own circuit boards and then building an OS.

And another thing slightly disturbing about a lot of game devs - in your teens or early twenties I can understand the desire to make Indie games, you're young and retarded. But later on in life, late 20s and on - can you not find something more worthwhile to do?

Sure, a side hobby making games, or your main job working as a game dev to pay the bills, but for that be the focus of your life? Can you not open your eyes to the multitude of problems that exist out there, in the REAL WORLD, and fix those?

You could say the same about other artists like writers and musicians - and thankfully, almost all of them suffer financially for their insanity. As time progresses, Indie gamers will also realize that they are just the starving artists of modern times (minus the groupies that writers and musicians get).

[pnathan]

> can you not find something more worthwhile to do?

Games have a straightforward business model easily understood. Let me explain...

I'm developing a game in the evenings & weekends. I do not have to go to all the local business networking groups to find some SaaS problem to develop into a solution for B2B sales. I don't have to poll everyone I meet about my new social local mobile wotsit to figure out my B2C sales. I don't have to look for a problem. The "normal" people I know who have computer problems have problems that are solved through education or using a comprehensively better toolset: both solutions are not wanted solutions. My "awesome app" ideas would generally take years to develop and may not even be wanted. Remember, people like & usually want what's familiar (faster horse, etc). Games, on the other hand offer a simple business model: entertainment. If it's catchy and entertainy enough, you wind up making some money; if you really get lucky and the game is smooth enough, you make lots of it.

All that said: The probability of my game making 'f u' money is, loosely, nil. What I'd like to be able to do is make rent money; what I'll probably do is make beer money... for one six-pack of microbrews. :-)

The big problem with solving "hard problems" is that they are (1) time consuming (aka expensive) and (2) often they are solved in an ad-hoc fashion already which makes the switchover brutally difficult or (3) there is simply not the infrastructure to support your solution. If you've done enterprise development, you'll have a glimpse of the grief involved with simple problems on a complex domain.

Given the above, games seems like a low-reward low-risk way to make some cash (to me).

[lod]

First of all I would have to say that's really harsh, both on the industry and the developer. He may have been a bit delusional and not thought the plan through but he learned why he was wrong and got better from it.

Calling game development "useless" is a stretch however, they have always combined math,art,computers,music,... into one single piece. They have also personally broguht me into the world of programming.

Saying writers don't have a purpose is also a bit over the top. Some can be reporters, others send ideas to people who otherwise wouldn't have even considered them.

Games are a firm example of entertainment, and people get joy out of seeing people loving their product. Can you honestly say you want to live your life without TV, movies, games, music, writing, art, stories, dance?

[unz]

I'm not saying that entertainment doesn't have value. I said it's perfectly fine if you're earning an income from creating it and it's OK as a hobby to create. But otherwise, the market (the people that constitute the world) have told you it's not valuable.

Art for art's sake is great, but it doesn't mean artists should get a free pass to do whatever they want and the rest of us digging coal mines and waiting tables give them money for art we don't like.

[icebraining]

Art for art's sake is great, but it doesn't mean artists should get a free pass to do whatever they want and the rest of us digging coal mines and waiting tables give them money for art we don't like.

And where has anyone said we should? I didn't see OP demanding public subsidies. You're just attacking a dumb strawman.

[unz]

His wife, the crowdfund backers, and the net loss to society by him taking himself out of productive business. Those are not 'dumb strawmans'.

And I wasn't talking about him in that comment, but the various starving artists who usually free ride on spouse/family/friends/welfare.

[icebraining]

I'll give you the crowdfund backers, since they haven't got what they expected, but who the hell are you to decided what he or his wife should spend their money and time on? Should we start judging you for the useful stuff you could be doing with the time you're wasting on HN, not only yours but others', by reading your posts?

At least he probably learned useful skills building his game. What do you have to show for the time spent here?

[eropple]

> Can you not open your eyes to the multitude of problems that exist out there, in the REAL WORLD, and fix those?

I am minimizing my risks in ways the OP is not, but I fully intend to transition to game development full time because building things that make people happy is of value to me. A paucity of art that communicates what I want to communicate, that entertains in the way I wish to entertain and be entertained, is a problem.

As for you: trivializing art is a sign of a deeper misunderstanding of the world than anything this guy has managed. So be less of a douchebag. You might even be a happier person for it.

[wpietri]

> Can you not open your eyes to the multitude of problems that exist out there, in the REAL WORLD, and fix those?

Yes, original author! You should be spending your time on forums bitching about things, not trying to bring a little fun into people's lives! Can you not see how anonymous abuse of strangers VASTLY IMPROVES THE WORLD?!?

[rabid_fish]

I write software for a living, and I found this comment to be dead on: Trying not to be harsh, but this guy is obviously clueless - built his own game engine - maybe he should've started by wiring together his own circuit boards and then building an OS.

He wrote his own game engine because he had always wanted to is the obvious reason. He's a deluded fool for thinking he could do so in a couple months. It should have been a side project while still gainfully employed somewhere. Hard to do with two kids at home.

Which is why I can't fathom how a dude with a loving wife and two young kids quits his job and gambles their savings away. I've seen it happen before, but it was 'honest' gambling at a casino and it ended in divorce and general unhappiness. Maybe it's a form of mid-life crisis?

EDIT: fixed format and grammar.

[victorf]

That's basically all you need to know about the entire article. Bleeding money from a mortgage, he decides to build his own game engine. He is an industry professional of many years. I am surprised he didn't see failure coming from the start.

[corresation]

open your eyes to the multitude of problems that exist out there, in the REAL WORLD, and fix those?

I had originally thought you were going to comment on the financial risks and unlikely returns of indie development, but instead it sounds like you're morally judging?

Most of the developers who frequent HN are not working on "real problems".

[unz]

They're the same thing, you'll only get paid if you solve real problems (though that's not really true, a lot of people get paid by stealing - most of the finance industry, many government employees, and much of senior management in industry).

[corresation]

By that measure, isn't providing entertainment/relaxation a real problem? I don't see why it is any less credible.