[alan_cx]

I don't think so.

The US is supposed to be an ally of many, if not the majority, of UN members. China is not. So from, say a Spanish POV, China, not regarded as an ally, spying is expected, but an ally industrially spying is more difficult to accept. In fact, something like this may well destabilize the UN. How can such an institution be trusted if its major player and funder is using it as its own conduit for spying? Yeah "we" all "knew", not now we really do know. Its fact.

What this proves is that the US is an ally of no one. The US has abused it's self entitled presumed position of trust. Now when there is some international jolly, or what ever, US requests for insane amounts of comic book, sunglasses wearing, gun toting SS to be allowed free armed reign may well be met with a lot more skepticism. The usual suspects will continue to suck up (the UK for example has no where else to turn to, given its attitude to the EU), but over all I see a lot more difficulty for the US behind the scenes and diplomatically.

In short, there is a huge difference between an enemy spying and a so called ally.

[hugnificent]

Allies spy on each other all the time. Alliances are simple two dimension structures, counties align themselves will all sorts of interests that sometimes seem contradictory. Look at the Israelis for example, they spy on the US. But they clearly benefit from the US's support. nevertheless, it makes sense for them to spy on the US, first they need to know what the US really thinks to protect their interests (the US isnt always publicly stating its true ntetions) and sometimes the US may have intel the Israelis do not). thats just one example of allies spying.

In general terms, any intelligent government is going to want to know what's happening in the world to its interests because people, and countries, lie and withhold information. So in general terms, everyone spies on everyone.

Who is your ally in one matter may not be in another. For example, China is neither an ally nor an enemy to the US. US Sino relations are complicated, sometimes the two agree and work together, sometimes they do not. If two countries cooperate on some things, but not others should they blindly trust each other? Of course not. What if they mostly agree? Should they still blindly trust each other? I would hope not. Again, consider how allies sometimes to lie to each other to get them to support their cherished positions. Nations have a duty to their citizens, and shouldn't blindly follow their allies statements of so-called fact. How else does a nation meet this duty if it doesn't cast a wary eye on its allies? It spies on them.

Equally, sometimes traditional allies are opposed on certain things, or may be lying as the Greeks were about their national finances. Im sure the EU wishes it knew that earlier.

The word ally isn't the same thing as "always on my side". These are nations we're talking about, that operate in their own interests, lie to each other and dont always operate in their friends interests. It seems reasonable for allies to be a bit wary of each other and to not assume allies will just always act in their allies best interests. And alas, spy on each other find out what's really going on.

[hyperventilator]

So Germany should close the US bases there?