[rayiner]

As I've said before, I think the power of marketing is less extensive than regularly believed. If the government could create demand for the drug war, then Microsoft could've made Windows RT happen...

My mom, who isn't a native English speaker, doesn't consume American media. And her Indian movies aren't being interrupted by ads for a Drug Free America.

The fact is that prohibition is a natural tendency in many societies. Whether its Jews not eating shrimp or Muslims not drinking alcohol, prohibitions have existed since long before modern marketing campaigns. In the U.S., prohibition of alcohol was not the result of government propaganda and powerful interests, but a grass roots movement, fully supported by women in particular. Just as that generation saw alcohol as an attack on their husbands, this generation of mothers sees marijuana as an attack on their teenagers.

[jlgreco]

So your mom didn't lap up Nancy Reagan's "Just say no."?

"Just say no" was a propaganda campaign and you rightly describe it as widely influencing the population. Somebody told your mom that "pot causes young men to give up on life and not get jobs or girlfriends and just play video games all day", she didn't dream that up all by herself.

[tptacek]

Um, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but pot really does cause some young men to "give up on life" (whatever that means) and not get jobs or girlfriends and just play video games all day.

There actually is a such thing as a stoner. I don't hate them or want to outlaw them or anything, but they do exist. Nancy Reagan didn't invent them.

[ferdo]

I've known kids that give up on life, not get jobs and play video games all day without weed.

Weed isn't the problem here. The kid and/or his family is generally the problem.

[jlgreco]

Typical strawman from tptacek; I am not disputing that pot, alcohol, television, or plain laziness sometimes cause people to become burntout bums. The myth is that all, or even most, people who smoke pot become burnout hippy bums and that it is a phenomenon uniquely caused by pot.

You are both absolute lunatics if you think government run propaganda campaigns have nothing to do with that perception.

Let's review:

1) rayiner describes the 'status quo' as stereotyping pot users, calls out media campaigns as one cause of this, and calls out his mother specifically as an example of this.[1]

2) I agree with rayiner.[2]

3) rayiner does not like it when people agree with him, and backpedals.[3]

4) I call him out for backpedaling.[4]

5) You "jump into the fray" damn near a day after rayiner's comment with a red herring large enough to make a professional fisherman blush.

Try reading the goddamn conversation before tagging in for your buddy.

[1] "The votes come from everyone who bought into Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" campaign. People like my mom, who thinks pot causes young men to give up on life and not get jobs or girlfriends and just play video games all day, and supports keeping it illegal because she thinks that's bad for the country."

[2] "The government runs propaganda campaigns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Youth_Anti-Drug_Media_...) to convince people like your mother that drugs are the worse thing imaginable. Those people then turn around and support the government in its opposition to drugs."

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6233377

[4] "So your mom didn't lap up Nancy Reagan's "Just say no."?"

[rayiner]

You're taking my comment about Nancy Reagan out of context and putting words in my mouth by characterizing it as propaganda. The sentence before that was "It's phat to blame the prison industrial complex, but they're just taking advantage of the Puritan strain in American society."

I don't think "Just Say No!" created the demand for drug prohibition nor do I think it is propaganda. I think for most people who push the message, Nancy Reagan included, it is a genuine and organic sentiment, consistent with Americam Puritanism. When I say my mom and others "bought in" to the message, I don't mean that government propaganda convinced them to believe something they would otherwise not. Rather, I think what you have is a group of voters with Puritan tendencies and authoritarian dispostitions who "bought in" and got behind a program that plays to those characteristics.

I think chalking it up to propaganda is short sighted, because it punts on the issue of how to convince the electorate. It makes it seem like if the propaganda went away, the drug war would go away. But the fact is that my mom and many people like her believe its the governments job to keep people from doing harmful things to themselves. They see drugs (along with alcohol and sex and a raft of other things) as something the government should regulate for the betterment of society. The culture associated with marijuana use, which is in many respects antithetical to what tjhey think is healthy for society, reinforces their belief that it should be made illegal, for people's own good.

Look, we live in a country where until recently I couldn't buy beer on Super Bowl Sunday in downtown Atlanta. A place where you can be arrested for walking down the street with a cup of beer. It's not big money and the DEA perpetuating that status quo. It's grass roots. You think the voters who passed blue laws all over the country need propaganda to decide people shouldn't be allowed to get baked?