[dfranke]

I don't see why you think it's unethical for them to try to poach your partner. It's not like he's some helpless pawn in this game, especially if he's as smart as you say he is. If I thought I had a chance at getting one of my competitor's best people to come work for me instead, I'd jump on it in an instant.

[Xichekolas]

Yeah, the way this is written it sounds like "your hacker" is Dustin Hoffman in Rainman, and you are his caretaker or something.

On a side note: I had no idea YC teams were this competitive with each other. I still had the image of one big Nerd Summer Camp that happened to spit out companies and connections. This makes it sound more like the Skull and Bones guys competing to meet the President at Secret Meeting X.

[SwellJoe]

"I had no idea YC teams were this competitive with each other."

As far as I've seen, they are not (and, neither of these teams is a YC team...they are YC applicants, along with 400+ other teams). The teams tend to be very well-equipped coming into the game and don't really feel the need to break up other teams before they've had a run at it. When a couple of companies fizzled out after the program, I suspect there was a bit of competition for who would get some of the folks from those no longer existent companies, but I'm sure it was friendly (at least I can't imagine any way it could have been otherwise...everybody is still friendly at the events). Others started working on new ideas of their own rather than joining an existing YC company.

[pius]

Haha, I'm curious who this is about since I know the OP.

Anyway, I think it's a poorly executed attempt at being unethical. If you had a friendship with the person who tried to poach, that person should have realized that he was going to dagger your relationship by trying to steal your partner without even pitching an idea.

Given that your partner is very tight with you (and apparently barely knows the poacher), obviously the incident was going to get back to you . . . one would have expected that the poacher would have tried to partner with you guys or, at the very least, have made a damn compelling argument for why your partner would ditch you.

If you're gonna be shady, you've gotta be strategic about it at least. LOL

[ahsonwardak]

Fine, it's not unethical, but it's stupid. Did they think they had a shot after one run-in at a bar? Would you join another team after running into them at a bar with no knowledge of their idea?

[rms]

I think you're being overly emotional here, they didn't think their offer through. Which makes it stupid, not malicious.

[dfranke]

What are you saying is stupid? Wanting him, or thinking they could get him? If you all went to undergrad together, then it's possible they know more about his talent than either of you realize. I certainly have classmates who didn't know me very well, who, while I wouldn't take them as the other half of a two-man team, I would take them as a third or fourth man give that I already had one committed partner. And while their chances at success may have been slim, it's not like the attempt required much of an investment.

[ahsonwardak]

It was stupid that they thought they could get him. Of course, he's good. They should have wanted him, but he also barely knew my partner during undergrad. And we were actually pretty good friends before this incident.

[rms]

I doubt they thought they could get him, but they probably figured it couldn't hurt to ask, which turned out to be false.

[edw519]

"I don't see why you think it's unethical for them to try to poach your partner."

This is Arthur Anderson thinking, not Y Combinator thinking.

If you jumped on one of my best people "in an instant", then you better be prepared to set aside resources to deal with me. Are you sure you really want to do that?

[dfranke]

If Arthur Andersen thinking is defined as "don't take petty crap like this personally, and focus your brain cycles on MSPW", then I have to side with Arthur Andersen. But I suspect that this is a matter on which Paul Graham and David Duncan would be in agreement.

[edw519]

"It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business."

And it certainly isn't petty. I don't care how much technical talent you have, if you're not prepared to compete in business, whatever the threat, you're toast. Poaching my people is crossing the line.

And I don't care what Paul Graham, David Duncan, or anyone else thinks. On this issue, you shouldn't either. Ethics is non-negotiable.

[SwellJoe]

This isn't a question of ethics. This is a question of whether you and the company you're building is worth the talent you have put together to build it. If, particularly at this early stage (the article says the silly words "this late in the game", as though applying to YC is the finish line) your partner were to come to the conclusion that another company were a better opportunity, then your problem is with your business or with your partner. It has nothing to do with other possible businesses that might want your partners talents on their side.

If you're not prepared to deal with the problem of getting and keeping good developers in a highly competitive market, then you're not equipped to deal with running a business in the tech industry. You will be astounded by how hard it is to recruit the very best talent. Middle tier and lesser developers are abundant...it's the cream of the crop, the people who deliver solid, reliable, working code day in and day out, that are difficult to find and to keep.

Welcome to the real world of business, where you have to worry about things like that.

[edw519]

Why is it, whenever there's an ethical issue on this forum, inevitably, someone steps up and says, "This isn't a question of ethics."

Maybe I'm the one in the wrong place. I certainly hope not. I like it here.

(FWIW: I've been in the "real world of business" since 1979, starting and selling 2 successful start-ups, working on #3. In all that time, nothing has concerned me more than ethical issues. I'd like to think I've been burnt every way possible, but thanks to some of the responses in this forum, now I wonder.)

[SwellJoe]

> Why is it, whenever there's an ethical issue on this forum, inevitably, someone steps up and says, "This isn't a question of ethics."

Because, in this case, it isn't. The article is about a human being, one with free will or some impressive approximation thereof, who received a business proposition.

Another human being is pissed off at the person making the proposition...but the proposition is not his problem. The business he is building and his relationship with his teammate is his problem. The person receiving the proposition may have had some ethics questions to address, like, "What is my responsibility to my teammate and the business we are building?"

The person making the offer was perhaps a bit rude (though his description of the proposition makes it entirely within the bounds of good taste), but not particularly unethical. Nearly every hire you make in the real world is hiring someone away from an existing job. Is it unethical to give someone a better offer? Is it unethical to give someone (who you know to be an employee at IBM or Google or whatever) your business card when you meet them at events and say, "let's have lunch sometime"? Of course not.

Anyway, it's all like a damned soap opera, and the OP made a mistake to post it at all. This isn't college, and nobody cheated on a test.

> Maybe I'm the one in the wrong place. I certainly hope not. I like it here.

A not so subtle way of suggesting that perhaps I'm poisoning the waters with my unethical advice? You'll be fine, as I can't reach through the wires and choke you or anything sinister like that. Unless perhaps you've got a weak heart and respond reflexively to nasty comments like mine, in which case, perhaps a nice hot bath would be more your speed.

[dfranke]

"If you're not prepared to compete in business, whatever the threat, you're toast."

"Poaching my people is crossing the line."

Those two statements look juxtaposed to me. It sounds to me like you're the one who isn't prepared to compete if you aren't willing to pose such a threat to your competitors, or to contend with it when you're on the receiving end.

[edw519]

I'm prepared to compete and have to scars to show for it. I compete by doing the right thing and offering better value to my customers, not by a slime-ball back-door gimmicks, like commandeering others' IP, slamming my competitors, and yes, poaching co-founders in a bar.