[bobsy]

> Russia is far worse than the US when it comes to rights

To be fair year after year the US fails to cover itself in glory when it comes to rights itself.

Abuse of PoW's in Iraq, extraordinary rendition, seemingly indefinite imprisonment without charge in Guantanamo, access to call records and internet usage of citizens without a warrant. I wonder about these Drone strikes which the US seems to able to do in any non-western sovereign country.

It has reached a point where you wonder what will happen next.

The mystifying thing is how passionate US citizens are about their right to vote. The massive rally's etc etc. And yet it seems politicians are almost always guided by big campaign contributors than the need's of the people they represent.

I am somewhat stumped by the faux-rage of the press and politicians. It seems that the US shitting over civil liberties isn't even a story. Instead it is all about Snowden and Russia. Realistically if a Russian named Snowdenoff fled to the US after doing something similar to Russia there is no way the US would have handed him over.

[cmdkeen]

America has done some really crappy things over the years, but you know about them, they come out and get reported.

In Russia the journalists who report these things get killed, those who speak out get assassinated overseas or put on trial for things they haven't done (as opposed to the act of leaking). Political opponents of the regime who announce their intention to run for office get hounded into exile.

America it at least a democracy, the public just don't care enough to change it. In Russia the people can't change it.

[Shtirlic]

So what is the difference if the results are the same?

[cmdkeen]

Because you can engage voters to change their minds in the USA, or indeed just engage politicians, whereas in Russia such activity can get you murdered, sent to prison (often a death sentence anyway) or exiled.

Look at things like SOPA where a large userbase was motivated to spread the word, tech companies got involved and the public were informed enough to convince politicians to change.

[alan_cx]

Will SOPA ever come back in a minimally modified form? It it really dead? Or will they just find another way to ram it through? Is there a real victory? Are the politicians now going to leave it well alone? Or will the media money eventually get its way?

Even here in Europe, referendums are routinely ignored. So, have a referendum on EU membership, and if its a result to leave, you get another referendum.... until we vote "correctly".

[pekk]

The results are exactly the same? Are you certain? Can you substantiate that?