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I'm actually saying that the "predatory money extracting non-games" aren't necessarily that. I get a strong whiff of "get off my lawn" vibes from the people who hate that business model for gaming. I'd prefer a more nuanced discussion that didn't dismiss all such games out-of-hand. For a forum that loves (LOVES) freemium startup models, it sure hates on the freemium model applied to video games.