[c0ur7n3y]

I have to imagine their recruiting is going to suffer greatly due to the recent revelations. Very few smart people are going to want to join an organization that spies on their fellow citizens. Plus, the NSA is going to have to be even more skeptical of anyone they do recruit.

[DanBC]

A lot of people just don't care. They want a job with other smart people and neat technology where they can do math in peace and quiet.

See also "You don't need to worry if you don't have anything to hide" etc.

[angersock]

Truly it is a wonderful thing that the most anti-social and introverted people get to deploy technology affecting the common man.

[mjn]

I mostly blame the common man for that.

Introverted people focused on a specific subject, such as pure-math research, tend to go where society deems it beneficial for them to go. So you are good at math, but you need to eat. Where does society think it's useful for a mathematician to apply his or her skills? Well, our society gives the NSA substantial funding, which it devotes in part to hiring mathematicians. The rest of society does not fund pure-math research much at all.

And yet somehow society is surprised that many pure mathematicians end up working for the NSA. Maybe if you cheap bastards were willing to pay for math research through a different mechanism, the mathematicians would work somewhere else.

[angersock]

You may have something there, at that.

If the common man weren't so chickenshit that they keep voting the same folks into office and refusing to hold their government accountable, maybe we wouldn't have to deal with the alphabet soup agencies making ready use of society's intellectually-talented castoffs.

[PavlovsCat]

So you are good at math, but you need to eat.

I'm good at cunnilingus, and yet I need to eat, too! What to do, what do do...

Do you know the story by Thoreau in "Walden" about the basket weaving indian? Also, while I agree that something like math research is ultimately benefitting all, this doesn't really apply when it's done for spooks, since those tend to sit on it. So if math is all you're good at, and if you positively can't wait tables or learn anything else, so you can use your math skills for non-profit and the commons or teaching math on the side, then you might be screwed. And if you just go work for the NSA, you're not exactly beating a path out of that situation for future mathematicians either.

[mjn]

My point was that if there is a structural problem, looking for structural solutions is a better angle than moralizing. If mathematicians are working for the NSA, instead of yelling at mathematicians, I'd want to ask, what is causing mathematicians to work for the NSA, and what would change that?

Same reason that, if you think gentrification is problematic, yelling "die yuppie scum!" at the poor schmucks trying to find a decent apartment in an overpriced area isn't either an effective or an intellectually sound strategy. Instead, one ought to look at the structural forces producing gentrification, i.e. the developers and capital movements.

An article on that subject: http://jacobinmag.com/2013/05/the-fucking-hipster-show/

[PavlovsCat]

If you look for causes for what "makes" people do something, how can you not also look at the people themselves?

[wissler]

Associating "introverted" with "immoral"?

[angersock]

Nothing immoral about being introverted--however, you don't get points for being exposed to mainstream society and forming relationships.

[wissler]

Yes but you get points for being introspective, which is essential to being moral.

[TallGuyShort]

I spoke to the NSA at a career fair. They weren't full-time recruiters, so I asked them how much they ran into brick walls of politics and bureaucracy in their day-to-day work. Their response was "well... not all of the time". I walked to the next booth.

[dromidas]

The TSA hardly has a shortage of employees. Why would the NSA have problems? I have more disgust for TSA than NSA currently, albeit by a very small margin.

[coryl]

I would assume NSA roles have much higher requirements in education and training.

[mpyne]

Requirements like having a high school diploma? ;)

[ihsw]

> I have to imagine their recruiting is going to suffer greatly due to the recent revelations.

On the contrary, it might improve. The Snowden sympathisers won't waste their time applying and the Snowden opponents will rush to the NSA's assistance.

> Very few smart people are going to want to join an organization that spies on their fellow citizens.

Smart people may realize that we're on the edge of an abyss with little way out, and that abyss involves complete control over everybody's lives -- this appeals to some people. What you can control cannot hurt you, and I think that feeling resonates with everybody that has a sense of self-preservation.

[eli]

Seems like it would only lead to increased reliance on contractors, no?

[chatmasta]

Yep. Probably even more than they realize. What percent of top CS talent do you think reads HN?