[TillE]

Can anyone think of another time this has ever happened? Two countries denying airspace to an official transport from a third country with no existing war or conflict involved? Bonus points if the head of state is onboard, but I'll accept other examples with only lesser officials involved.

It's absolutely shocking.

[mcphilip]

Portugal is a mess recently with several cabinet members resigning, including a key figure overseeing the implementation of terms agreed to in its bailout by the EU. I can see Portugal being in a particularly compliant mood at the moment in order to build good will with those that may have to help bail it out again.

But France? What could possibly be the motive other than bending to pressure from the US?

[mark_l_watson]

The NSA/US government probably has lots of dirt on politicians in these countries, and are applying it. Democracies are not so much democracies when the NSA can blackmail local politicians. I personally believe that this is the whole point of our large scale sweep of "everyone" surveillance, no matter how innocent they are.

[ims]

That could be it. Or the United States could be applying the typical measures of pressure in the diplomatic toolbox, consisting largely of economic incentives, concessions that meet other countries' policy goals, and appeals to mutual interest. You know, the standard tools of statecraft that have barely changed since the Congress of Vienna.

You decide which seems more plausible.

[mark_l_watson]

Well my friend, I suggest we wait a year or two, and it might be clear which of us is right.

I am old enough to have lived through the Pentagon Papers disclosures, when a lot of people were calling for the execution of Daniel Ellesberg. Now, only right wing whackos don't acknowledge that Ellesberg served interests of US citizens.

EDIT: I am not being critical of you. I appreciate your comment, thanks.

[lttlrck]

Or, they are all in on it.

[eli]

No need to jump to conspiracies. Is it really that crazy that France might just want to help an ally track down a desperately wanted fugitive? Surely they'd ask for our help if they thought a rogue intelligence agent was flying across the US.

[mark_l_watson]

Except, Snowden obviously didn't do this for personal gain. His life is probably over.

Compare this situation to a British citizen a few years ago who sold sensitive state secrets for money, and got the MAXIMUM PENALTY by UK law: 2 years in prison. Snowden who rightly or wrongly is acting from I believe are his own moral goals, may get the death penalty, tortured like Manning, or life in prison.

"desperately wanted fugitive"? I am curious about you, and why you use a phrase like this. Seriously, please explain your position on this.

[eli]

Maybe the French don't care what his motives were? I think I'd be generally disinclined to support people who publish state secrets if I were running a government.

But I'm not sure why you're confused. You disagree that he is a wanted fugitive? Or with my characterization that he's "desperately" wanted? I think the US would very much like him to return and face charges.

[mark_l_watson]

Reply to Eli's child post, for some reason there is no reply link under his comment:

I am confused by responses such as yours that only consider Snowden and not the public release of information about the NSA. I don't argue that Snowden should not get a year in jail after a fair trial. I personally think he has done the world a service and should get a walk, but a minimal jail sentence would be fair.

The NSA leaks are a big deal, and I believe an opportunity for our country to get its act together. Anyway, thanks for your comment.

So, I assume that you don't agree that our government would coerce foreign politicians. I wish that I could agree with you, but I can't.

[lttlrck]

How does the lack of personal gain justify anything?

[mark_l_watson]

To me, that Snowden has basically sacrificed his life to release information that he thought the public should know is key to whether or not he is a whistleblower,and thus deserve some form of protection. If you are agree with the Patriot Act and what the NSA is doing, then I respect your opinion but I don't agree with you.

[kaonashi]

How does the presence of personal gain impugn anything?

[milfot]

France would ask air force one to divert?

[eli]

Probably not... but not because they're being blackmailed by the NSA.

[e3pi]

>The NSA/US government probably has lots of dirt on politicians in these countries, and are applying it.

"Those who tell us to trust the US's secret, privatised surveillance schemes should recall the criminality of J Edgar Hoover's FBI."

-Barret Brown

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/01/cyber-in...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/24/surveill...

[llamataboot]

No, and I can't imagine it will go over particularly well in Latin America. Terrifying for Snowden now though. If there was any doubt as to what lengths the US will go to make an example of him, it's now gone.