[thasmin]

It's interesting to see the EU take form. With the recent finance reforms and articles like this, it looks to me like the EU is becoming more and more like the US with the countries taking the role of states. Moving between US states for the purpose of employment is extremely common. The EU countries have more border autonomy and language barriers that prevent people from moving between them, but it seems similar to the formation of the US and the subsequent 200 years of consolidating power at the federal level. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens in the next 20 years.

[mpyne]

Many of the people I chat to from Europe on IRC confirm that notion. They consider themselves E.U. citizens first and foremost.

Of course these are heavily tech-oriented chat rooms so I'm not sure how far that can be applied. But I find it interesting myself, especially given the history of the USA, where right up to the 1870s people considered themselves a citizen of the state first and not the nation... obviously it has eventually inverted.

But should this inversion actually happen, when does the USA get to ask for the E.U. to act as a singular entity for things like Olympics, U.N. representation, and other international protocols? ;)

[rtpg]

I can't recall where I saw it, but there was a poll asking people whether they felt European or a citizen of their own country. The "Europeans" were not very high. Definitely some selection bias (firstly, I guess you're talking to people who are comfortable IRC'ing in English).

Also, the EU is already represented as a whole in some int'l organisations (such as the dual representation in the WTO), and economonically the Euro Zone is a block from the outside.

[thasmin]

U.N. representation is a really good point, especially with UK and France both having veto power. It will happen when it's beneficial for the countries to be consolidated as one body because they'd represent more economic and political power. Looking forward, I'd guess that this wouldn't happen until India and China and other currently developing nations have bigger economies per capita than France and Germany.