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by tropicalmug 4737 days ago
This story is not relevant to the privacy issues at hand. This is distracting from the conversation we should be having.
2 comments

There is an important point in there though.

You are not your government. It's possible to love your country while not accepting that the actions and authority of your government are correct.

Edward Snowden obviously loves his country and the people of it.

> Edward Snowden obviously loves his country and the people of it.

I think Snowden's actions demonstrate a motivation more virtuous than preserving nationalistic ideals. His acted in the name of humanity! It wasn't just about American's 4th amendment, but the privacy of the people of the world.

> It's possible to love your country while not accepting that the actions and authority of your government

What is a country but the actions of it's government? A country without a government is just.. people?

A country minus the government is usually more than 'just people' - it's often a group of people with a shared history, culture, and language, what's often referred to as a 'nation'.

When people talk about their love of country as distinct from their love of their country's government, they're generally expressing appreciation for a set of national characteristics that'll likely endure for a lot longer than their current government.

> it's often a group of people with a shared history, culture, and language, what's often referred to as a 'nation'

But nationalism applies to a specific territory -- as defined by a government. It just seems arbitrary to love people of a certain territory and not another due to a border established by a monopolistic force on violence.

Nationalism applies to a nation. Some nations have governments, and some don't. Some governments govern over multiple nations peacefully, and many others don't. Some nations without governments have aspirations to form them, while others don't. Even tying a nation to a specific territory is problematic - some nations, often due to persecution, are widely dispersed in a diaspora.

You're trying to simplify something that's rather complex because you don't like nationalism - but people almost universally have more affection towards those who share things in common with them, and that's all nationalism is at its core. Borders on a map don't create this national affection - instead, nationalism creates the borders! When borders get out of sync with nations, you get war and unrest, both within and between countries, and when this happens, it's usually the border that eventually ends up getting adjusted, with exceptions only achieved through brutal repression.

It sounds like nation is another word for culture.. am I far off?

I guess I don't understand the point of nationalism -- besides the obvious -- to distinguish and dehumanize people of other cultures.

In your opinion, should people take pride in the color of their skin?

I don't fully agree. The article mentions that Snowden has offered to come back to the US if Holder agrees not to detain him before trial. Certainly a very important piece of news.
Snowden said he has told Attorney General Eric Holder through his lawyer that his son will probably return home if the Justice Department promises not to detain him before a trial nor subject him to a gag order.

Lonnie Snowden has not spoken to his son since April, but he fears that Edward may be manipulated by WikiLeaks handlers and would like to get in touch with him.

"[...] probably [...]"

"[...] has not spoken to his son since April [...]"

I disagree with you. Snowden coming back to the US for trial is irrelevant to questions about the actions of the NSA and the behaviour of your government.
Perhaps Snowden is afraid of what could happen to him before trial. The fact that his concerns might be well motivated is certainly relevant to the actions of NSA and the behaviour of your government.
NO. It doesn't.

The article mentions what his father has said. It says nothing about what Edward Snowden has offered.