[drivebyacct2]

A "warrant", "FISA warrant" and "National Security Letters" are all distinct things that are used to circumvent the Fourth Amendment. By definition only the FIRST of those three are allowed for by the Constitution; the others do NOT meet the same standards and probably or at least fortunately maqy exist primarily for that reason.

Literally hand picking any of these keywords pretty much leads to the same Wikipedia page discussing at least some of these things. I'm still reading it to see how complete it is. Again, where are you getting this information that the government has been more conservative or particular about these directives?

Ironically it actually has a fairly good record dating back to 2006 in several places when some of this stuff got stirred up that time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_co...

The whole thing is insightful. (I edited this comment to be far less rude, my apologies, I should've slowed down)

[btilly]

Let me channel our resident conservative lawyer, raynier.

The 4th only applies to US citizens. Therefore a FISA warrant targeting people outside of the USA who are not believed to be US citizens does not have to meet the standard of the 4th.

A National Security Letter targets third parties (your email provider, your library, etc) and fails to search, seize, or directly affect any of you, your house, person, papers or effects. It therefore does not violate the 4th.

Channeling myself for a moment, this is not how I personally understand the clear intent of the 4th. I'm sure you agree with me. However I am forced to admit that multiple courts have sided with the interpretation that I just described.

Under common law, I don't get to decide what the law is. Judges do. Since they seem to be consistently accepting this line of argument, the 4th simply doesn't mean what I want it to mean. (I'm all for a better amendment, but that does not seem to be happening.)

[justinschuh]

Thank you. I wish more of the commentary on this subject was like yours. It's a refreshing to see someone who can disagree with a position but accept that it is still legal if the courts have upheld it.

[drivebyacct2]

I made it pretty damn clear that I was talking about it at a constitutional level and it's kinda irksome to watch you find the only person who barely-even-doesn't-really-agree with you and act like they're the only respectable person in the thread. It's not my god damn fault you refuse to read the wikipedia page and inform yourself.

edit: Look, all over the front page this morning. MORE sources and allegations describing MASSIVE domestic surveillance that occurred without any sort of oversight or warrants. How can you just ignore story after story after story and push your anecdotes?

[drivebyacct2]

Do you happen to be paying any attention to any of the top stories right now? Or does your anecdote answer back ALL of them too?