[gtrak]

I think at least the criticism of immutability and FP resulted from taking concepts to extremes. I made a point to address lock-in of different aspects of clojure in my post.

I think if you're mutating deeply nested things, or doing heavy algorithmic bookkeeping, it's worthwhile to evaluate different approaches (maybe pure java) as an 80/20 thing, and I wonder how hard it would be to have comparable mutability facilities and data structures as a library?

Of course, programmers want to get things done without spending time on building up their own tools, and I understand that.