[spitx]

Did Daniel Ellsberg bolt for a communist nation, sympathetic to his views after releasing the Pentagon papers?

No, he turned himself in.

Snowden wants all the glory and none of the bruises.

If that doesn't demonstrate a lack of selflessness, what does?

Source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg#Trial_and_mistr...

[Ygg2]

Yeah, no. That doesn't work like that. The times now and 40 years ago were different.

CIA, NSA and the whole gamut are now much more efficient than they were 40 years ago (no need for due process etc.) If you try to play fair, they'll fuck you over big time.

Look how much good the legal system was to Aaron Schwartz for a minor misdemeanor. You'd never hear from Edward Snowden, until he just came out and admitted he was Chinese spy and that he loves Big Brother, I mean Big Government.

PS. He isn't in China btw, he is in Hong Kong. Which isn't a communist country as comment before me noted.

[anigbrowl]

I don't know whether to be amused or depressed by the ahistorical ignorance of your comments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee

[Ygg2]

True, history hasn't been my strong side, but I don't see how Watergate is relevant?

The difference in technology (between now and then) is huge, since our lives have migrated more towards the Internet. Before the wiretapping could only go so far. You needed to install wiretapping in a room (phones could always be bugged).

Now wiretapping is everywhere. You literally carry the equipment for others to wiretap you (mobile phones, laptops, google glass, etc). It's just an order of magnitude more easier now.

[anigbrowl]

'Wiretapping' means bugging your phone, by definition. You tap into the phone wire.

[Ygg2]

Ok, semantics error. I switched the meaning of bugging/wiretapping the room. I can't edit the message.

The point is the same, you actually carry around tools that allows others to spy on you (this wasn't the case before). Happy?

[gruseom]

Since you have such faith in Daniel Ellsberg's moral stature, you might want to refer to his comments on this particular case.

[WiseWeasel]

Here's a link, for the lazy:

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/html5/video?id=9135822&pid=913582...

[mikeash]

I want all of the glory and none of the bruises too, if possible. I'd be very suspicious of anyone who said otherwise.

[e3pi]

You appear to have a high value or `goal' of personal `heroism'. Is this something imprinted from mom and dad or scripted in Boy Scouts? Your kind do well in High School marching band, as E- ball-peen hammers in the motor-pool, and as dutiful shrapnel fodder. That's the only reason the rest of us remain succinctly cordial and pleasant to your schoolboy entrained narcissism.

[Apocryphon]

Maybe if that communist country was neutral and non-aligned with either the West or the Warsaw Pact, like Yugoslavia. Then the metaphor would work.

[caf]

None of the bruises? You're arguing that he hasn't paid a substantial personal cost already?

[genwin]

Maybe Snowden wants neither glory nor bruises.

[andrewflnr]

If you can have all the effect, getting the message out, without getting bruises, that is strictly better than getting bruises. The only thing standing in the way of that is people like you who think you have to sacrifice yourself for your message to count. Who would Snowden be selflessly helping by turning himself in?

[g8oz]

Would Snowden be treated like Ellsberg or like Bradley Manning? Big difference.