[einhverfr]

> People seem to forget that democracy and freedom are relatively new to the world.

What? Would you like a detailed list of counterexamples ranging from local farmer councils accepting or vetoing kings in early medieval Norway to the Greco-Roman governmental systems on which ours are based?

Additionally, it is the case that up until the last 100 years or so, tyranny was constrained by the amount of enforcement effort required. Drones in particular I see as a very major threat here for that reason.

[pfortuny]

I guess he does not consider systems in which esclavitude/serfdom existed as "democratic": your examples are more -in his mind, I guess- "aristochracies/oligarchies" than the "democracies" we now have.

Athens is probably a mild exception (but with esclavitude).

I agree with you, though. I am only trying to clarify what the parent was referring to.

[einhverfr]

Well, Norway wasn't really serfdom (serfdom basically evolved from Roman slavery). It was rather a matter where free farmer districts endorsing one king or another. Keep in mind that the troop levies were locally managed but not on the continental feudal model, and these local assemblies were the primary legal bodies of their areas. I don't think it was any less democratic than the US today.

Additionally keep in mind that during much of the time, if there was a dispute (and this was common before the Conversion), these districts could and did lead to the rise and fall of kings.

But even if you say monarchies are out (in which case the UK today is not democratic), you still have Iceland, Gottland, and much more.