[h4rrison]

I will never understand the inherent distrust America seems to have in their government. Every time a document like this is released, the logic is to assume that the document applies to all Verizon customers (which it does not), then to assume that all telecom companies have been given similar documents, then to assume that the government actually acts on this and randomly spies on people, then to assume that they are using that data for malicious purposes, and suddenly the government is evil.

Perhaps the only thing they use the data for (if indeed it exists) it to programatically uncover underground pedophilia rings? Perhaps they use it to pre-empt mass shootings? Perhaps the country with the most powerful government in the world should have a little trust in it now and then?

[timdev2]

> Every time a document like this is released, the logic is to assume that the document applies to all Verizon customers (which it does not), then to assume that all telecom companies have been given similar documents, then to assume that the government actually acts on this and randomly spies on people, then to assume that they are using that data for malicious purposes, and suddenly the government is evil.

The thing about that is that the government did those sorts of things in the past. When those became public, measures were put into place to check those powers. Some people feel that since 9/11/2001, many of those checks have been continually eroded.

More specifically:

> the logic is to assume that the document applies to all Verizon customers

Given the breadth of this order, it appears that there's no particular thing being investigated. It's just "fishing", ostensibly for national security purposes.

> then to assume that all telecom companies have been given similar documents

Once the government is asking "everything" from a particular company, using national security (as opposed to particularized criminal investigation) as the reason, what reason is there to assume they haven't ordered everyone else to do the same. Don't forget this is a secret order, the subject of which (a Verizon subsidiary) is legally barred from discussing with anyone. The document making the news here was leaked, and the leaker has committed a felony by doing so.

> ... then to assume that they are using that data for malicious purposes

I'm not sure anyone is arguing that they're doing anything malicious ... yet. But history as shown that this particular slippery slope isn't always a fallacy.

> Perhaps the country with the most powerful government in the world should have a little trust in it now and then?

One can, conversely, argue that the citizens of that country have a moral obligation to the rest of the world to keep their government's power in check precisely because it's so powerful.

[khyryk]

Favoring privacy at the expense of hypothetical benefit is a conscious decision and is a matter of principle. For instance, the freedom to kick down doors in the middle of the night without warrants and drag people out of the building would undoubtedly result in some benefit, but I think there's a reason something like that hasn't yet become standard procedure. Moreover, I believe that trust is something that's earned.

[snom380]

Have you even read the order? It calls for all CDRs to be handed over.

If you had read up on the abuses of the patriot act, including giving telephone companies retroactive immunity so they could not be prosecuted, you would understand some of the distrust.

This is about the government covering up and hiding its actions and how they interpret the law.

[kingnothing]

America was founded on the distrust of government. It's deeply rooted in its people.

[adventured]

Would you trust the same government that instigated massive wars in Vietnam and Iraq? The one that spies on the planet without permission. Kills thousands of civilians with drones. Actively prosecutes a zillion dollar fake war on drugs and terror as an excuse to run huge military and police bureaucracies and enrich the insiders involved in it. The one that has a military budget the size of the rest of the world combined. The one that has actively put more people in prison - political prisoners - than any other country in history (outside of maybe Stalin and Mao). The one that has shown absolutely no respect for its own governing documents, with Obama lately using the IRS to attack his political opponents, spying on the Associated Press, running from a big scandal on Benghazi and Fast & Furious, to actively expanding unconstitutional domestic spying programs. The government whose President can only be elected with a billion dollar campaign. The one whose Senators are all bought and paid for by a lobbying industry so large it's bigger than all the lobbying in the rest of the world combined. And on it goes.

You'd trust that monster?

We were warned by the founders about this, many times over. The warnings have become gradually unheeded. Washington in his farewell address warned against the kind of foreign entanglements that the US Govt. now specializes in instigating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington%27s_Farewell_...

[youngerdryas]

Are you calling drug dealers political prisoners? If not who are these political prisoners?

[waterlesscloud]

America was founded with an inherent distrust in government.