[scythe]

Tesla qualified. Their application was reviewed by a board of People Who Know Things.

I know this because my aunt, a respected physicist, sat on such a board. They're not throwing shit at the wall to see if it sticks; they know what they're doing, and they're not picking winners and losers, they're playing the same game every investor plays: trying to decide who is going to win or lose before it happens. Tesla got the loan because they won it. Which is fair to the same degree as any other investment process. Unless, that is, you have some additional knowledge of corruption in the review process.

Solyndra should have proven that the government cannot "pick winners and losers" even if it wants to -- as long as the government isn't the primary player in the market, which is unfair, but also isn't what happened with Tesla.

Or GM, for that matter.

As for dealerships, the reason Tesla doesn't have to go through them is because they don't have any preexisting agreements with the dealerships, in the same way that, for example, someone who agreed to take out a student loan has to pay that back, but someone who didn't go to college, or went to a cheaper school, doesn't have to. There's nothing unfair about that either. Sure, dealerships are a pain: let's drive them all out of business, please. I'll be first on board.

[bob13579]

"they know what they're doing, and they're not picking winners and losers, they're playing the same game every investor plays: trying to decide who is going to win or lose before it happens."

The government should be in the venture capitalist business funding companies based on the recommendations of the board of People Who Know Things, now?

"As for dealerships, the reason Tesla doesn't have to go through them is because they don't have any preexisting agreements with the dealerships."

Other smaller car manufacturers are having to go through dealerships, even with zero pre-existing relationships. Why should Tesla, which has a market cap that far exceeds those aforementioned manufacturers, get special rules?

[coldpie]

> Other smaller car manufacturers are having to go through dealerships, even with zero pre-existing relationships. Why should Tesla, which has a market cap that far exceeds those aforementioned manufacturers, get special rules?

They shouldn't. Remove dealership requirements for all manufacturers. I think that's pretty clearly what Tesla is arguing for.

[coldpie]

> The government should be in the venture capitalist business funding companies based on the recommendations of the board of People Who Know Things, now?

Sure. Why not? I want the government to stimulate innovations in places that need it.

[bob13579]

Who determines what needs funding? A lobby of People Who Know Things?

If you wanted to curb carbon emissions, there are many more efficient ways to do so.

[coldpie]

Well, yeah. Who else? It's not dissimilar to how academic research funding works. Proposals are submitted, evaluated, and sometimes awarded funds.

As far as curbing carbon emissions goes, there are a lot of irons in that fire, both public and private. No reason to place all your eggs in one basket. There are a lot of reasons to publicly support new innovations in EVs. It's a very high-profile field, and Tesla is doing a fantastic job of showing that EVs can be fun, pleasant cars. Putting the money into academic research isn't going to generate nearly as much public interest.

[scythe]

>Other smaller car manufacturers are having to go through dealerships, even with zero pre-existing relationships. Why should Tesla, which has a market cap that far exceeds those aforementioned manufacturers, get special rules?

I don't believe you. Show me some evidence that they have to, and that they're not merely choosing to.

[bob13579]

They have to. Franchise laws. Look it up. Here is MA's: http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXV/...

[scythe]

Nope, turns out you're reading it wrong.

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXV/Cha...

Subsection (6):

>[It shall be a violation...] to offer to sell or to sell any new motor vehicle to any person located in the commonwealth, except a distributor, at a lower actual price therefor than the actual price offered and charged contemporaneously to a motor vehicle dealer located in the commonwealth for the same model vehicle similarly equipped or to utilize any device which results in such lesser actual price unless the same is available on equal terms to all dealers located in the commonwealth; but this paragraph shall not apply to sales by a manufacturer or distributor to any unit of the federal government or any agency thereof or to the commonwealth or any of its political subdivisions.

As written, this clearly applies if and only if Tesla already sells cars to dealers, and furthermore similarly to other independent car manufacturers, electric and otherwise.

Is it a bad law? Yes. Does it hurt the incumbents? Yes. Is it biased in Tesla's favor? No. Is it giving Tesla special treatment? No.