[chasing]

There's something off-putting about these kinds of articles. I think it's because there's an intentional subtext that start-up founders are some kind of rare breed of unwilling knights who have been called to noble action. "We must suffer so the world can experience the glory that is Docstoc." It's disingenuous. Start-up founders aren't being put-upon: They're making a conscious choice.

Most people work harder than they want to and must make trade-offs. People with minimum wage jobs. Doctors, lawyers -- as others have mentioned. Pretty much everyone except the idle wealthy or unemployed.

Pretty much everyone alive thinks they work too hard and wish they could spend more time with friends and family or working on hobbies, travelling, etc. Human condition.

[mattzito]

Eeeexactly - I started to write almost exactly this and got distracted and returned to find you'd said it better than I could.

Having a startup is certainly hard work for less pay than you might be making elsewhere. But you get all of the benefits of being your own boss to one degree or another, plus creating something from scratch, and the possible upside.

I knew a guy who opened a lunch restaurant and catering business, and until it was making enough money, he'd work 6 days a week at the restaurant for lunch and catering gigs, and then also waited tables at a friend's restaurant and worked as a bartender at another friend's place. He basically got 4 hours of sleep a night, 7 days a week for three years. There was no brass ring or huge exit at the end of that path, he'd just decided at some point that he wanted to be his own boss.

And then there's all the people out there who work two or three part-time jobs just to make ends meet, who never see their kids, who may not even have health insurance - where's their work/life balance?

I personally feel privileged to have had the opportunity to start a company, make some money, have health insurance, and yes, worked my fair share of 60-hour weeks and all-nighters. I'm way better off than so many people in the US, forget about the rest of the world.

[abherrera]

I agree. Building a startup is a privilege. It's not something everyone gets to do. I come from a line of very hard working people. My parents were the ones that showed be that with knowledge and hard work anything can be achieved. That's why I chose to found my startup. As with any occupation there are unique challenges. Those challenges take a harder toll on some. Chatting with friends that lost marriages and have struggled with depression and/ or drugs as a direct consequence of their occupation as a startup founder was part of the reason for the post. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

[marcosscriven]

Read half the article - he lost me when he used that hackneyed phrase '110%'

[6d0debc071]

Fairly sure she's a woman ^^;

[abherrera]

You would be right. I'm definitely not a dude.

[seiji]

I think it's because there's an intentional subtext that start-up founders are some kind of rare breed of unwilling knights who have been called to noble action.

I think that sentiment is summed up nicely in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5810546

"The dream we sell to our employees" -- a clear delineation of "the powerful and right founders vs. lowly employees who have to be manipulated." "Join our ranks" -- What? What ranks?

People who live charmed lives can't really understand the real world after a while. It's not their fault, and in a way, the world may be better because of it, but it's annoying when they unknowingly flaunt their "We're successful!" in our faces.

[abherrera]

There's no subtext. The article was written to share my experiences, experiences of friends, and the challenges we go through.

Startups are tough. As founders we are responsible for our teams, our customers, our vendors and partners, our advisory boards, our investors, family, friends, significant others, our health, and vision. It's not a compliant. I could go make a ton of money working a 9-5 without any of this type of stress and I choose not to because I love what I do and I love to build.

The reason I mentioned Startups Anonymous is because it's a resource for founders and team members (I don't like the word employees it creates that separation you noted above).

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[chasing]

There is a subtext. Think of the term "Startups Anonymous." It's a play on "Alcoholics Anonymous." Alcoholism is something people have a very hard time controlling. It's dangerous. It destroys relationships. It destroys lives.

Participating in start-ups (as a founder or employee) is not something that's out of your control, despite your description of yourself as a "type A personality." It's just not. You do it out of passion. You do it out of a desire to build your own thing and make a more profound dent in the universe (and maybe get a little payday in the process). That's great -- and I respect that. You should be doing it with a sober mind and a clear picture of what you're doing and what your goals are.

But when you paint being a start-up founder as being similar to having a drug or alcohol addiction -- as being something that you can't control and that ruins your life. Well, it kind of sounds like whining. Or like you're trying to paint yourself as some kind of martyr to the cause. Like something is being put upon you that's totally out of your control and it's ruining your life. It's not. You are given an option each evening: Stay at work or go visit friends you haven't seen in ages. You think it over and choose the reward that comes from work. Want closer friends? Choose them.

You're in control. It's disingenuous to act otherwise.

[shimms]

You are over simplifying it.

The pressure (whether self-imposed or not) upon founders (especially those who have raised funds) are not imagined. The expectation and pressure to deliver a result when you've got investors, employees, shareholders etc all looking at you to pull this off are huge.

"You do it out of passion. You do it out of a desire to build your own thing and make a more profound dent in the universe"

No, unfortunately that isn't why a lot of struggling founders are doing it anymore. That's why you started it. Ideally why you started, and why you're continuing should stay the same, but unfortunately, more often than not, the reason you start a startup, and the reason you persist when things get bad (and Startups Anonymous and blog posts like these enter the discussion), are entirely different.

"You think it over and choose the reward that comes from work."

You assume the choice is based on wanting the reward that comes from work. It isn't that calculated. It is survival. Fuck friends, they'll be there tomorrow, tonight I have to work out how to stem the haemorrhage of money so I don't have to let Bob go on Friday; or, we've only got three months of money left, and our revenue is no where near where it should be, lets work these numbers in Excel for another couple of hours, there has to be something I'm missing.

This becomes a viscous cycle, and your ability to execute gets more and more constrained as you get more and more fatigued, stressed, tunnel visioned etc. As your ability to execute decreases your stresses go up, and each compound the other.

Tell me how exactly at that point, an exhausted, stressed, emotional person is supposed to just have a moment of self realisation and go "oh wait, what I'm doing is destructive, is actually making the situation worse, and I should JUST STOP". (Which by the way is what I've heard many people tell alcoholics who don't understand the disease).

The mental health aspects of startup imbalance (whether self imposed or not) are real. The fact that they may be originally self imposed in no way minimises the pain and suffering that a lot of founders go through.

Having a group of people who you can share with, hear other's stories, hear how they turned it around helps you. The word play is apt, well done, and shows a deeper appreciation for the issue than I think you're seeing.

[chasing]

"Tell me how exactly at that point, an exhausted, stressed, emotional person is supposed to just have a moment of self realisation and go "oh wait, what I'm doing is destructive, is actually making the situation worse, and I should JUST STOP". (Which by the way is what I've heard many people tell alcoholics who don't understand the disease)."

This thread's probably dead, but I wanted to add a few more cents, here...

I hear what you're saying, and I have my own business, so trust me -- I understand much of what you describe. Please don't automatically assume I know nothing about this.

At one point, I was an exhausted, stressed, and emotional person. And I had a moment self-realization and I said "stop." I thought deeply about how I worked and why and begin to make changes to create a more sustainable work-life balance. It took some effort, but I enacted most of those changes. Although it's an ongoing process.

I have never been an alcoholic, but I have been close to alcoholics. What they went through is nothing at all like what I went through. Once I made my decision, I had the power to enact change. My understanding is that managing alcoholism is a very hard process that pretty much requires community and accountability to work.

Now, I don't dismiss at all people getting together, talking, and helping one another out. I didn't do anything like "Startups Anonymous," but I did find that I was able to reach out to people I knew and find some help.

What I get frustrated by, though, is a much more subtle tone that I hear when founders and entrepreneurs talk about their problems. It's a little hard to describe, exactly, and I don't want to be either dismissive of rude. But. I feel like I hear too much pained moaning about a loss of friends, relationship difficulties, and loss of pleasures like taking vacations that don't require packing a laptop. Things like that. This bothers me because I actually think that just taking a deep breath and going, "You know what, I've simply got to stop what I'm working on for a day and just go do something else, something different -- just for a day (hour/evening/weekend)" is totally possible, no matter how myopically stressed you may be. In fact, I've found that when I most stressed, taking these breaks and enjoying life -- in the middle of the stressful period -- helps me keep the stresses in context, helps me not let them invade my every neuron and eat my brain out from the inside. It frees my mind to actually think about the stressful thing without falling into a dark hole.

So what I'm saying is, don't blame your company, your co-founders, your investors, your employees, or your customers for these problems. You. Are. In. Control. Act like it. It's not a pity party. Nobody who relies on you wants you to be a friendless basket-case. And suffering isn't a requirement for creating something great.

[shimms]

Cool - you know I think we actually agree on most things to do with this subject.

I guess I was talking about the more serious, and thankfully less common, degree it can get to with some founders (anyone actually, this isn't a special club reserved only for founders, anyone can find themselves in a bad way, feeling trapped).

The 90% (pulling figures out of my arse) of founders who say they have no choice but to take their laptop on every 2 day holiday, and haven't had a decent break for years are probable self inflicted with ample ability to "just change it" - agreed.

[tspike]

Brilliant! What the heck is the point of starting a company if not to improve the lives of others AND yourself?

[abherrera]

I stated I know founders that have drug abuse and addiction problems as a result of a lack of healthy strategies to cope with stress. This is much different than comparing a founder to having a drug or alcohol addiction.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's great to hear a different perspective. Lots of luck to you and whatever you're working on.

[shimms]

Unfortunately what starts as alcohol overuse, or drug abuse, as a coping mechanism can quickly spiral to full-blown addiction, both for physiological and psychological reasons.