[maratd]

> Here's a real case study; a mother, two children under six years old, mid-twenties, high school dropout, only has a bus pass and foodstamps.

This is just as disingenuous as the parent and isn't even close to representing the most common situation. The majority of people don't live next to a market that has proper fresh produce, but demand drives supply and there's a reason they don't.

Most upper and middle class families have largely abandoned the concept of fresh produce. When the poor become not so poor, they follow the same pattern. Not because they don't have a choice, but because they choose to.

My parents live a very affluent area. Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Pathmark (large local grocer), Mitsuwa (large Japanese market). Four choices within 1 square mile. All walkable. Not a single one of them has any significant fresh food selection. Not one. Oh, they have a ton of prepared food that you can buy by the pound, but not a whole lot if you want to make it yourself.

I live in a less affluent area (putting it mildly) and there is a farmer's market 5 minutes walking distance from my house that has only fresh produce, absolutely no prepared food. It has more fresh produce than all the the other 4 combined. Why? Because the people who live here can't afford prepared food. It's that simple. They would, if they could.

[Nrsolis]

I'm sorry....but I'm going to call B.S. on this one.

Whole Foods doesn't have fresh food selection? Really? They don't have fresh chicken? They don't have any vegetables?

Please kindly supply me with the address of such a place.

When you make blanket statements like "Most upper and middle class families have largely abandoned the concept of fresh produce" I have to question your information. I live in CT, in Fairfield county, which could claim as residents some of the wealthiest people in the world. Yes, the world. Think Steven Cohen kind of money. The Winklevoss Twins have a rowing club not far from my home. Do you think they're eating Chef Boyardee from a can? KFC?

I'm willing to believe that the fresh produce section will not be as varied in the smaller towns in the poorer areas of the country, but absent isn't something I'm willing to believe.

[maratd]

> Whole Foods doesn't have fresh food selection? Really?

I'm sorry, but I'm going to call BS on this one. When was the last time you were in Whole Foods?

When you combine their frozen, refrigerated, packaged goods, and prepared foods sections ... their fresh vegetable section is maybe 1/10 of that size? Which is normal for most grocers in the US.

The local farmer's market? 90% fresh vegetable. Which, you know, makes sense.

[Nrsolis]

Dude, I shop at Whole Foods every week.

The point everyone was making was that good healthy food is available. It might not be the BULK of what's on sale. But it's certainly AVAILABLE.

Here is a quote from you: "Not a single one of them has any significant fresh food selection."

I can get almost any fresh meat I desire and nearly any vegetable at my store. I think you need to reconsider your language.

[columbo]

> This is just as disingenuous as the parent and isn't even close to representing the most common situation.

http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/acrossstates/Rankings.a...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States#Po...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/social-issues/poor-k...

> 47.6 percent The nation’s poorest kids primarily live in households headed by a single female (pdf). Nearly half of all children with a single mother — 47.6 percent — live in poverty. Indeed, the children of single mothers experience poverty at a rate that is more than four times higher than kids in married-couple families.

Further reading:

http://www.google.com/search?q=single+mothers+poverty+rates+...

[ctdonath]

So why is it politically incorrect to advocate not procreating until in a viable & believably permanent relationship?

[maratd]

> 47.6 percent The nation’s poorest kids primarily live in households headed by a single female (pdf).

Exactly how is being poor the most common situation? Are you under the impression that everyone is poor?

What?

Read my post. My point is that you don't have to be poor to lack access to fresh produce and in fact, if you're poor, chances are you have better access to it.

[cboppert]

I think this may be a little off. In fact a lot of poorer urban areas have relatively little access to fresh produce and have been dubbed "food desserts".

See: http://newsone.com/1540235/americas-worst-9-urban-food-deser...

[ctdonath]

What does one do if in a desert, with nigh unto no food available and conditions oppressive? MOVE.

Most of these "food deserts" are that way because harsh socioeconomic conditions (to wit: disinterest in quality products, coupled with prolific theft) made commerce in suitable foods untenable. Complain about "food justice" all you want, but the next meal is just a few hours away as is the next bus ticket. Demanding someone provide a balanced meal is both unproductive and unfair, so figure out a near term solution.

BTW, some of us are trying to help by finding what is viable at low costs in nearby stores. Strange how many deride the attempt to help.