[robomartin]

There are other aspects to this issue. I'll preface this by saying that I know this will be offensive to a number of people. So be it.

American secondary/high-school education, outside of schools and communities outside the norm, is horribly bad. This is the reason Americans have a reputation for being ignorant. And that they are. I would venture to say that the average European secondary school graduate runs circles around American kids. I do realize I am generalizing to a grotesque degree. However, I have had the experience of hiring and working with a number of first year college students. A few surprise you because they are outside the norm: thoughtful, respectful, inquisitive and reasonably well informed. They generally came from families that valued education and somewhat old-fashioned cultural values. The rest? Well, let's just say they never lasted very long.

College, for some, is a required level of remedial education. Kids are coming out of schools valuing drinking, partying and drugs far more than hard work, dedication, the ability to communicate, think and write.

I have seen horrible examples of non-degreed individuals interacting in the context of a professional business environment.

So, yeah, you get to 30, 40 or 50 years of age and things are very different. The cool coder with the dreadlocks and no degree might still be able to get a job. However, unless you are a superstar or run your own business you will have to go up against others with degrees during your job search. In a lot of cases you will loose, regardless of what your actual capabilities might be.

[randomdata]

> American secondary/high-school education, outside of schools and communities outside the norm, is horribly bad.

I'm not sure it is that simple. I recall a recent article that said Canada has one of the best education systems, but, if I recall correctly, 70% of Canadians fit a certain demographic. If you observed only that same demographic in the US, the students in the US actually did better than their Canadian counterparts.

It suggested the problem wasn't the education system in the US itself, but rather much deeper social problems.

> In a lot of cases you will loose, regardless of what your actual capabilities might be.

The good news for those without degrees is that high paying jobs are naturally, by the laws of supply and demand, the ones where employers cannot be picky. If you want to fight for the "bottom of the barrel" jobs, then sure, a degree is probably going to be a significant filtering device. If you're looking at top paying jobs, then outside of legal requirements, the degree isn't going to matter because employers will be happy to have found anyone with some skills.

Programming is currently in that in-demand category, and as such the incomes are high and the education requirements are low. It is kind of funny to see that people think this is something genuinely unique to programming though. It is just economics.

[robomartin]

I am proposing that a degree becomes more important later on in life and that this is why one should obtain it as early as practical.

[lsc]

>I am proposing that a degree becomes more important later on in life

Hm. Why do you believe this? Because we are expected to move into management? I think most of the middle management I've worked under have had degrees, so that seems valid. But the owners? business owners very commonly have incomplete college educations. (and I've worked under more than one middle manager who has run (and failed) a small business, and then went and got a mid-life degree from something like the university of phoenix. The experience owning a business seems to carry some respect in middle-management circles, enough to overcome the shame of going to a school advertised on daytime TV.)

[randomdata]

I suppose we half-agree then. I always figured that retirement was the perfect time to obtain a degree. Wise enough to respect the teachings and old enough to (hopefully) have the time and money to spend on such luxuries.

[tracker1]

I wish that more schools had drop-in options for simply auditing courses... it is far less of an option now than 20-30 years ago. I'd much rather sit in on some history classes than take half of the classes required for a degree in anything relevant to my field of work. I'm not going to make more now, or in the near future... I've had my time in management, don't think I really want it again.

I see that a degree is really necessary for some.. and in some fields even more so... Most of the best programmers I've ever met are simply passionate about programming. Not about where their degree is from.

[jmathai]

I think the Internet is doing a pretty good job of solving that. More and more colleges are putting their courses online every year.

Pair that with sites like Kahn Academy and you've got a real solution for self learning.