[greatergoodguy]

Microsoft is pointing the finger on everything but the actual product. The bigger issue is the poor usability of the product and the benefit of this product is poorly understood by both consumers and microsoft. What's interesting is the Windows 8 overall concept is pretty much the same as a year before Windows 8 was released. You had the metro interface, the desktop app, the lack of a start button... How could they not figure out solution to these issues after having ALL THAT TIME.

"Reller reportedly admitted that Microsoft hadn’t done enough to close the knowledge gap by training staff in outlets selling Windows 8 machines or by educating customers in the run-up to last October's launch."

"There also seems to be a hint Microsoft recognizes it slipped up by not doing enough to persuade PC makers to build hardware actually capable of using Metro’s UI, which is largely irrelevant on machines lacking touch screens."

[canthonytucci]

>. You had the metro interface, the desktop app, the lack of a start button... How could they not figure out solution to these issues after having ALL THAT TIME.

I don't get why people are so upset that the start button is gone. To launch a program I just hit the windows key and start typing the name. This is exactly what I did on windows 7 (though I never used it as my primary OS). The things that show up on the screen are somewhat different, but the result is identical.

As a longtime Alfred user on the mac, the winkey+typing method feels quite natural and works well.

[deelowe]

But that's not something a very large percentage of windows users are accustom to doing. There's nothing about the window logo on a keyboard that would make users think "I press this to get a menu." It's completely not discoverable. This(lack of discoverability) is actually an underlying theme for the entire metro interface.

[to3m]

Right - so it works like the Windows 7 one, so what need was there to change? :)

I've used Windows regularly since Windows '95 (when it was Windows 3.x, I preferred DOS...) and the loss of the start menu is actually quite annoying. After 17 years you get used to these things and having them changed around is about as helpful as somebody swapping your left and right feet.

I've seen plenty of worthwhile changes, that required some adjustment but were ultimately worthwhile. Addition of start screen is fine; you get nice big blocks to click on, I like that. Total removal of start menu is bullshit. Just another revolution of the tech hamsterwheel, taking you nowhere.

[canthonytucci]

>otal removal of start menu is bullshit. Just another revolution of the tech hamsterwheel, taking you nowhere.

If you really miss it, third party solutions have been around to solve this problem since the RC.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/141702-how-to-bring-the...

A co-worker recommends classic shell, though some of the others look pretty nice as well.

[freehunter]

The iPad doesn't have a start menu. Android doesn't have a start menu. That doesn't seem to be terribly disruptive to many workflows.

[meepmorp]

Neither of those OSes is Windows, which has millions of users with 15-20 years of ingrained habits and tricks that work just fine for them and have for years.

It's different for Windows because Windows occupies a totally different part of the computing world.

[freehunter]

You might as well say that Windows 8 doesn't work for Windows because Windows 8 occupies a different part of the computing world. It exists in a market where an ever increasing number of people are telling Microsoft that Windows Classic is an unfeasible product to revolve a business around.

For years techies and the media have been clamoring for the end of Windows, the end of the desktop, and the post-PC world. Now it's here and has somehow caught everyone off-guard in that Microsoft actually listened.

[to3m]

Perhaps if the whole thing had been a ground-up redesign, a genuine end to Windows, they'd have had more success? As it is, it's Windows 7 (or near enough) with some Metro jazz tacked on as an afterthought. It's not different enough to be exciting, simply different enough to be annoying.

Or maybe MS simply shouldn't have listened ;)

[to3m]

iPad? Workflow? :)

[arenaninja]

The workflow change resulting from the removal of the Start menu is very real, but there are other issues as well. When I opened some System menu, I could only Alt-Tab out of it, there was no visible option to close it. It turns out that you can Alt+F4 to close, but this occurred to me after continuously using WinKey -> Desktop -> Window that I want. The removal of Aero is also questionable -- the Square UI looks terrible in comparison, and I'm left to wonder why they wouldn't leave it as a choice.

[sixothree]

The lack of shadows behind windows is what bugs me the most. My eyes get lost in a sea of square garbage.

[muuh-gnu]

> and I'm left to wonder why they wouldn't leave it as a choice.

Because choice in UI configuration leads to UI diversity and UI diversity leads to the dilution of the UI brand.

They want all machines to look the same.

[illuminate]

"When I opened some System menu, I could only Alt-Tab out of it, there was no visible option to close it"

Pressing the windows key to bring it up and windows to back out of it works just fine.

[DougN7]

By using Windows 8, I discovered I'm much more of a visual thinker than I thought. When I want to launch Excel, I know where it is in the menu and what the icon looks like, but the name "excel" doesn't necessarily come to mind. I just want to launch a spreadsheet program, or a CD burning program, or a graphics program. Having to type the name is a serious slow down. And I'm a Windows programmer with 20 years experience!

[Shorel]

I'm shallow as fuck.

I'm upset that Aero is gone and the simple blue border is in.

[300bps]

>I don't get why people are so upset that the start button is gone.

I get it. The Start button is useful. When I first installed Windows 8, it was a little painful to find my way around. Then I realized something... Windows 8 does have a Start button. If I move the mouse to the lower-left of the screen, a button labeled "Start" pops up. I click on it and up pops my pinned applications. Sure, it's called the Windows 8 interface (formerly known as Metro) but when it gets down to it, it's actually a fairly similar methodology to previous Windows versions. If I right-click in a blank area on that list of pinned applications, I get an option to see "All Programs" in addition to the pinned ones.

Basically, after an hour or two of using Windows 8 I became used to the new interface. The only other thing that's important to do is replace the crappy Metro versions of applications with standard Windows versions. The biggest one to replace is the PDF Reader.

[canthonytucci]

>The biggest one to replace is the PDF Reader. I think a PDF reader inside IE would make the most sense here. I have been using Chrome/Firefox's built in PDF reader with good results for my uses.

Which other ones do you dislike?

I think Mail is pretty weak, but I also think if you're displeased with it, you probably also have a copy of excel or use a browser client.