[JshWright]

> - Linode got railroaded here and the general reaction by folks is a little overdone. You know that's true when even the hackers' overview of the hack specifically calls out people bitching about Linode security on Twitter. All it takes is one zero-day, and you will all be hit by one in your career, so cut Linode a little slack.

Unfortunately, there's not much slack left to cut. Linode pulled that line taught with the last major breach of their system (and their subsequent opaque response).

It's clear Linode's security practices leave a _lot_ to be desired, and their response to this incident, while better than the last, didn't go anywhere near far enough in terms of transparency (as well as demonstrating some fundamental gaps in their understanding of the current state of infosec).

[tiredofcareer]

Agreed. The one thing I think Linode could do better is communicate. The secrecy model is ... odd.

[freehunter]

I didn't pull my hosting from Linode because they got hacked, I pulled it because they were hiding this from me. I even went as far as replacing the card I used to pay them and dealing with the massive headache of updating payment info with a new card number because I didn't know if I could trust their assertion that CC numbers didn't get released.

If I can't trust you at your word, you no longer have the privilege of holding my data or my CC info. Two breeches with a lack of communication really does spoil overnight the trust that has been built up over years of wonderful and reliable service.

[gingerlime]

I'm curious to know who you moved away to? and what gave you the confidence that they are a) better at security b) better at communicating transparently when things go wrong.

This security incident is very upsetting, but for me the linode track record in communication, responsiveness and support is still pretty amazing compared to the competition. At least at this price range.

AWS might be safer, but I basically don't get any support (for a reasonable price like I pay linode), Rackspace didn't seem nearly as responsive or transparent on much more trivial matters. Who else is out there which is worth switching to?

(I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious)

[threeseed]

I have found lots of the smaller VPS providers (especially those that provided dedicated/colo services) to have great service. Check on http://webhostingtalk.com

I fail to understand how you can think Linode has a great track record. It is an unequivocal disgrace. TWICE they have mislead their own customers over a major security incident. And there have been lots of times during outages (in particular my time at Fremont) where they were MIA.

[lelandbatey]

I give Linode a lot of slack. When people say "Oh, they should be more secure" I often say "Really?"

In an ideal world, yes, they should be more secure. However, as in this case, they got taken advantage of via a zero-day attack, with others planned well outside the scope of what Linode could have planned for. Which is insane. Can you even name something, anything that they could have done to protect themselves? Additionally, given the unique form of attack, figuring out what was going wrong was probably not possible. Thus, they knew as little as you did.

And then, everybody switches to some other provider. But do they switch to "super secure, we examine every byte of the software that we run to make sure we're bullet proof" hosting provider? NO, everyone just switches to another commodity VPS provider that is vulnerable to all the same super high level attacks that Linode is vulnerable (maybe even more attacks, given that Linode actually has a tremendous amount of experience).

In reality, you're only getting more security by switching to a less prominent hosting provider, A.K.A. security through obscurity. Which is the worst kind of security because it's not secure at all.

It's like getting mad at the mayor of your city when a meteor falls on your house: unproductive and misguided.

[tiredofcareer]

While what you say has merit, Linode's actions demonstrate an ambivalence toward security. Public key encryption for card numbers (yay!). The private key stored on the same machine and the key loaded in memory (boo!). ColdFusion was not properly secured (simply preventing access to /CFIDE would have neutralized this vector) and they focused first on preserving themselves. I've also been personally annoyed when there are sweeping outages and information is withheld for seemingly arbitrary reasons. Support is apparently instructed to be vague. It's overwhelmingly frustrating.

I'm just as annoyed at Amazon for this, to be honest, and in the large, annoyed at our industry for being so unnecessarily secretive. We need to stop thinking of our infrastructure as our competitive advantage; to pick on Google as an example, while Google are obviously masters of running systems at scale, their infrastructure efficiency is not the reason people choose Gmail. Obviously their platform gives them some competitive advantage but, for example, their policy of withholding even the innocuous names of internal systems is bizarre. I think the rest of the industry follows that lead.

It's weird that we embrace openness in the FLOSS communities but when it's time to build a revenue-making company, the details of the inner workings are immediately a hush-hush secret. If you're doing something simple enough that describing it means someone can replicate it, it's an idea that can be replicated trivially anyway. I bet everybody in hosting knows how Linode works, and I doubt there's any kind of espionage taking place.

In this case, it's fine to be secretive if you'd like, but at least tell me how you plan to prevent the problem from recurring. Linode always says "we're working diligently to prevent this from happening again" but provides no details whatever. The announcement from the founder of Linode[1] underlines this; the entire tone of the post is "here's how we band-aided the immediate problem," with no details on where they go from here as a business or culture.

[freehunter]

I moved away to me. I enjoyed having my test server in a data center so I could work on it from anywhere, but it wasn't worth risking a security breech where no one would tell me I had been compromised. Instead, now I somewhat inconveniently host it on a machine sitting in my basement.

I'm merely a hobbyist/researcher, so I don't have a production environment to worry about.

[gingerlime]

I see. For me this is unfortunately not an option.

I need to be able to serve my customers, and they are all over the world. So I need a provider with data centers in multiple global locations, that offers an API, that has decent support that responds quickly, and at a similar price range... Interested to find alternatives that are also more secure and better at communication.