[peterwwillis]

I can't think of a better classification for a terrorist than people who sit around all day working to destroy credibility of corporations and expose personal and financial information for the sake of their own fucked up moral code and amusement.

It would be nice if we had internet role models. IRC is full of low-life degenerates who perpetuate the vitriol that reinforces this way of life as an acceptable pastime. If there were well respected hackers who spoke publicly against this kind of behavior it might make some people think twice. (Unfortunately, most well respected hackers used to be these kids before they got real jobs)

HN is full of individuals who try to take the high road, versus the kind of anonymous internet idiocy that exists in nearly every forum and chatroom. I love this about HN. I wish more of the internet took it as an example.

[MichaelGG]

>I can't think of a better classification for a terrorist than

Really? You can't think of a terrorist definition that uses, you know terror to coerce people into doing things? While you may not like these guys, labeling it "terrorism" is counterproductive. If you stretch terrorism to include anything that involves the potential for someone to feel fear about anything, you can classify nearly everything as terrorism.

[saraid216]

IRC is a communication medium. Could we please not vilify it? It's like saying people who use burner phones are bad people.

[peterwwillis]

It's also a machine that generates dumbed-down conversation. The natural slant on IRC is away from intelligent discourse and toward a cross between texting and one-line jokes with friends. There's nothing inherently wrong with this. But it does foster negativity much of the time.

I know hundreds of people who dedicate their lives to the drama and bullshit that is spawned solely by being in an IRC channel. If it went away, these people might just find something productive or positive to do with their lives.

[saraid216]

Yeah... I think you're hanging out with stupid people a bit overmuch.

You can say the same thing about SMS, Facebook, Twitter, IM in general, email in general, MUDs and MMOs, telephones, telegraphs...

Should all those go away, too?

[BCM43]

The natural slant on IRC is away from intelligent discourse and toward a cross between texting and one-line jokes with friends.

What? I could name 20 channels of the top of my head this is not true for.

[hderms]

tech-oriented channels? Care to name any?

[X-Istence]

Tech oriented indeed. You know, all of the Open source IRC channels on Freenode are a good start.

IRC is nothing like you've described, at least to me.

[peterwwillis]

IRC is nothing like you've described

User hderms didn't describe them, I did. And I can show you hundreds of thousands of channels like I describe, on most popular IRC networks (Freenode is a tiny network in comparison).

Also, I challenge you to show me proof of intelligent discourse in any Freenode channel. It's simply not easy, especially in a channel with 5 or more active participants in conversations. Try taking your time to make intelligent points and either people get bored with you or your points get lost in the scrollback.

[diakritikal]

Thousands of them actually http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/?net=freenode

[diakritikal]

I think contributors to the many open software projects that both you and I depend on, that use IRC as a first class collaboration tool would strongly disagree with this point of view. I certainly do.

[simmons]

The more I think about it, the more similar these sorts of groups seem to inner-city gangs. Otherwise good kids get caught up in the wrong environment, find acceptance within a peer group, and then become seduced by the intoxicating taste of power over others. As someone who engaged in my fair share of computerized mischief as a teenager, I can understand how a kid could fall into that trap. As someone who's pulled all-nighters to re-install/recover servers from attacks -- because you can never really trust your systems again, otherwise -- I don't think even the "non-profit" attackers realize the harm they cause.

If someone has a beef with society, there are plenty of honest and constructive ways of "sticking it to the man" without resorting to violating people's property.

[err_badprocrast]

> If someone has a beef with society, there are plenty of honest and constructive ways of "sticking it to the man" without resorting to violating people's property.

People say this all the time, but always fail to give examples of what sort of activities they think would be a constructive alternative. Would you mind sharing what you envision as alternative activities?

[GeraldFondue]

When it's a battle for the hearts and minds of people, human suffering is your only concern. The more pain you inflict the less likely you will win.

(R)evolution is not looking at what is wrong, it's looking at what is working. Study the leaders of successful change movements of the past. Most talked about what they wanted (but might not have existed yet), rather than what they didn't want (i.e. "I have a dream" not "I have a nightmare"). Then share that vision with the world. Change begins with a vision of a better and different world. Inspire people to want to move closer to that world. Share your ideas with others. Learn to express yourself through the arts. Form a band. Start blogging. Become a filmmaker. Learn to program and make an app or service that helps people. Build a business that embodies this new world you want to see. Be the change you want to see, said Gandhi.

If you don't yet have a vision for a better and different world, start by asking yourself these questions: "What am I passionate about?" "What's broken with my world?" "What gets me angry or really worked up?" "What are some of my earliest memories of experiencing pure joy as a child?" "What’s the most important thing I know?"

Creating a vision for a better world, sharing that vision with as many people who will listen, and then acting on that vision is the best way I know how to "stick it to the man."

Here's some quotes to help inspire you:

"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." - Richard Buckminster Fuller

"People who talk about revolution and class struggle without referring explicitly to everyday life, without understanding what is subversive about love and what is positive in the refusal of constraints, such people have a corpse in their mouth" --Raoul Vaneigem, The Revolution Of Everyday Life

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --George Bernard Shaw

And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we're liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others. --Marianne Williamson

“Let me say, with the risk of appearing ridiculous, that the true revolutionary is guided by strong feelings of love. Above all, always be capable of feeling any injustice committed against anyone anywhere in the world.” --Che Guevara

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. --Margaret Mead

“Almost everything--all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure--these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving only what is truly important. Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart.” - Steve Jobs

"When people focus on the value they provide to others, they take their eyes off their own insecurities." --Dave Navarro

“If you hear a voice within you say, ‘You cannot paint,’ then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced” --Vincent Van Gogh

"An entrepreneur is someone who, almost artistically, designs a living entity which embodies the values, beliefs, and ambitions of the creator." --Jake Lodwick

"It takes a lot of courage to release the familiar and seemingly secure, to embrace the new. But there is no real security in what is no longer meaningful. There is more security in the adventurous and exciting, for in movement there is life, and in change there is power." -- Alan Cohen