[josephlord]

"Porsche somehow manages to start with the 911 where they stick the engine way out behind the rear axle (high polar moment of inertia, poor front/rear weight distribution) and make it handle beautifully."

Actually there are some benefits to the arrangement. The high polar moment of inertia actually should make any spin slower to start and easier to catch than a mid engine arrangement. Under hard braking the weight shifts forwards so the weight distribution changes to more balanced than with other arrangements. Under power the weight is over the rear wheels for power out of the corner.

A 911 behaves differently to other cars but I'm not sure the arrangement is actually worse in most dynamic scenarios. Understeer into the corners is the main dynamic weakness when pushed really hard and can be compensated for by trail braking into the corners. I guess you can get into trouble if you go into a corner too fast, panic brake and lose the rear end but if you are used to the set up you can make use of it.

[I've only driven a 1980's 911 so maybe I'm over extrapolating to all rear engined cars and I've never tried a mid engined car. This book is really good at explaining how do get the most out of different weight distributions and has some fun stories (I've got the first edition but it probably isn't much different): http://www.amazon.co.uk/Porsche-High-performance-Driving-Han...]

[beachstartup]

i've owned an NA2 NSX and a 997 911 GT3 and the NSX was much easier to lose control in. it felt unstable in general.

911 grips harder as you turn harder, very strange to get used to but once you 'get it' it feels great. obviously there is a limit but you are not going to hit it on the street in a car like a 911.

i haven't driven any modern mid-engine cars like the R8 or boxster though, i'm sure it's vastly improved from the NSX, which was basically designed in the 80s, so no fault to it. it was a great car. can't wait to see the new one.

right now i drive a performance sedan but my next car will be a "regular" 911, probably a 991 S.

as for the tesla... eh. doesn't give me that "gotta have it" feeling. i still want gasoline and a clutch. call me old fashioned.

i would be interested to know the % of current tesla owners that have ever owned "real" sports cars, not just "sporty" cars. it doesn't strike me as the same crowd.

[vl]

>as for the tesla... eh. doesn't give me that "gotta have it" feeling.

It's actually really easy to test drive Model S. Click big red button on the website, they call you, and boom - test driving Model S Performance.

While I don't think it's time to buy EV yet, I highly recommend test driving Model S Perf - it feels, accelerates and handles beyond amazing for car of it's size.

[beachstartup]

the model S performance competes against M5, E63 AMG PP, Audi RS5/6/7 and can't beat any of those in 1/4 mile or 0-60 times. i would disagree with "beyond amazing", it's at the rear of the pack in terms of acceleration and handling.

if you've never actually driven a fast car, i'm sure it's very impressive, but objectively, it's not fast compared to its competition.

it appeals to a different crowd, the kind that wants EVs. i bet most people who considered/bought the S perf have never seriously considered an M5, E63, RS, or even Cadillac V (since we're talking American cars here). all of those handily beat the S in every benchmark.

[secabeen]

Performance model is even with the M5: Time M5/Tesla: 0-30 2.0/2.1 0-45 2.9/3.1 0-60 4.5/4.4 0-75 6.4/6.1 1/4M 13.8/12.6

Personally, I don't feel a tenth of a second makes much difference, but it's wrong to say that the Tesla is handily beat in every benchmark.

References: http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m5/2013/road-test-specs.html http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/2013-tesla-mo...

[dave1619]

Have you test driven the Model S Performance? It's not just about benchmarks but also about handling and feel.

[beachstartup]

no i haven't, because driving an electric car does not appeal to me in the slightest.

have you test driven a BMW M5 or AMG E63? or does driving a giant, turbocharged, gas guzzling V8 not interest you?

well that's what interests me. not a battery pack.

[dave1619]

I've driven 20+ BMW M3s and Porsche 911s. The Model S spanks them. It's a surreal driving experience. Totally quiet. Instant torque. Amazing handling for a large car.

It's really something you need to experience before you criticize it.

[susanhi]

Just curious, have you test driven the model S? Or is it the idea of not having gas/clutch that makes you uninterested?

[beachstartup]

haven't test driven one but it can't beat my current car in performance numbers, so ...

and the roadster just absolutely does not appeal to me. i don't like roadsters in general but it's just too feminine and it looks hideous with the top on.

[dbrian]

Definitely not the same crowd. It's still a 4 door sedan. They're competing against the Panamera not the GT3.

[beachstartup]

also, my current car is an E63 AMG PP, that's the crowd i was comparing, i.e. me.

[beachstartup]

tesla roadster