[georgefox]

I'm normally pretty easy to please with UI changes, but even I'm a little frustrated with some of the new compose quirks.

Personally, I've had a very hard time putting together bulleted lists in the new compose. To start the list, you need to click the underlined A (for Additional Formatting), then the familiar bulleted list icon. I can live with that, though I'd certainly prefer one click.

To do a nested list, though, I often get confused and frustrated. With your existing list, you need to click the underlined A, then click what appears to be the left align icon, which is the Align Menu. From there, Indent More is what you're looking for. It took me quite a while to figure this out, and I still find myself forgetting it frequently. Even when I do remember, I'm frustrated by the maze of clicking I have to go through.

I also have trouble with hyperlinks, often clicking the attachment button instead of hovering over the plus to reveal the chained hyperlink icon. I don't know that I've ever used the attachment button (other than mistakenly), as I always drag files onto the message to attach instead.

For me, pretty much the only formatting options I want are lists and links, and those are pretty inconvenient to access.

[kpanghmc]

Learning the following keyboard shortcuts for formatting bullet lists made the transition to the new compose UI much less painful for me:

  ctrl + shift + 8 to create a new bullet list
  ctrl + ] to indent right
  ctrl + [ to indent left

[cmircea]

Ctrl + Shift + 8? You gotta be shitting me!

Ctrl + ] & [ to indent? What's wrong with Tab & Shift-Tab, like in every other app?

[DanBC]

Uh, [tab] usually switches focus to next control, and shift-tab switches focus to previous control.

Thus, when I hit [tab] now focus is taken out of this text box and to the reply button.

[gcr]

HN discourages formatting. We don't indent posts, we don't have nested lists.

Gmail and email encourage formatting. You're writing a letter, not a twitter post.

[DanBC]

That's irrelevant to the point in the parent that I was responding to - that every app uses tab to format text. Most apps don't. There are a limited section of apps that use tab for text formatting. I'm pretty sure most web browsers never have, although I welcome examples of web browsers that do.

If people want to write real email they can use a real client, not a web interface.

[gcr]

I think it's relevant. I expect app designers to use the keybindings that make sense based on what the user wants to do instead of blindly adopting whatever guidelines the OS suggests.

If you're in the shell, "tab" should tab-complete, not move to the next terminal you have open.

If you're in a shooting game, "tab" should reload your weapon or show scores or whatever, not advance your cursor to the next target.

If you're in MS word, tab should indent the next line, not move to a different control.

If you're writing an email, same thing, because "writing" is most like "writing in MS word."

Re: your second point, Gmail is a really good "real" web client, at least for most people, and this is a small step away from that.

[skriticos2]

That's actually not an easy problem to solve. When I'm creating some (desktop) UI that has multiple controls one being a text box, it always destroys the workflow (tab - next, tab - next, tab - indent.. crap..). I did not find a good solution for this so far.

Edit: Thinking about it.. maybe I'll try big G's version.

[mietek]

Shift + 8 = *

Seems like a sensible mnemonic to me.

[georgefox]

Sensible, perhaps, but I may not have figured that out if it weren't pointed out to me.

[karthikkolli]

If keyboard shortcuts are enabled ? will give list of all shortcuts :)

[Fuzzwah]

I can honestly say I've never used text formatting in an email, so I realize we're coming at this from two different directions.

If I need a list of things in an email I'll do this:

  - step 1  
    - sub step a  
    - sub step b  
  - step 2  
  - etc

Which gets me thinking about how cool it would be if gmail accepted and displayed markdown formatting..... Would that be a winner for you too?

[k3n]

I hate just about anything and everything about MSOutlook, but this is one feature that I sorely miss in GMail.

In MSO, at least if you have the option turned on (although I think it's on by default), you start a new list simply by typing "* some text". When you hit enter, a new bullet-point is automatically created, and hitting enter twice without entering text ends the list. Likewise, typing "1. some text" begins an ordered list with the same behavior of the unordered list.

Lists are so common, especially for development and business in general, that this has saved me tons of time over the years. While I do get annoyed at most of the other automagic formatting that MSO crams in, this particular feature is gold.

To your question: yes, a MD-enabled editor would probably be the best. MD is quickly becoming ubiquitous, at least in my realm, and is a great compromise between an overblown WYSIWYG abomination and plain text.

[shrikant]

That's because Outlook uses MS Word internally for email composition and rendering.

Earlier (Outlook 2003), it used to be obvious and also configurable. Now you're stuck using it with all its quirks and annoyances. (Yes, I'm not a fan..)

[twistedpair]

FWIW, MSO has had something like 16 generations to refine that.

[pfg]

Yeah, that's something I'd really love to see in Gmail as well as Docs.

It doesn't even have to be full markdown support, just the most convenient things (* for bullet points, ...)

[leddt]

I think those shortcuts are easy to learn (at least on Windows). Ctrl-K for links, Ctrl-] for indent more, Ctrl-[ for indent less.