[HorizonXP]

To be honest, this is exactly why I do not plan on starting a family in the Bay Area, and instead, will return back to Toronto.

http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/pregnancy.... http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/ei/types/maternity_parent...

Basically, in Ontario, mothers are eligible for 17 weeks of pregnancy leave. After giving birth, both parents are eligible for up to 37 weeks of parental leave.

This time is unpaid, but has no impact on your benefits, length of employment, seniority, etc. Many companies do pay for this time off, especially since the government employment insurance program will help if your weekly income drops below 40%.

The money helps significantly, but for me, it's more about the time. These are important and formative weeks during your child and family's development. A couple of my friends just had a baby, and I can see how much they cherish every moment they spend with him.

I won't be worrying about these kinds of benefits for a few more years, but it's still something that I view as important.

[rayiner]

My wife and I had a baby last year (she's 5 months now), and I can't imagine being away from work for 37 weeks. My wife is an involuntary housewife for almost a year (she graduated early and her work doesn't start till the fall), and while she appreciates the opportunity to spend time with the baby, I'm pretty sure she'd say you can have too much of a good thing. I love my daughter to bits, but let's be realistic--she's not 18 hours a day worth of "magical"...

That said, good parental leave benefits are great for a different reason: very young children are a pain in the ass to take care of, which means that daycare providers charge a lot more until they're older.

[mindjiver]

Here in Sweden you get 16 months to split between the parents. It amazes me how crappy the benefits are in even the most "progressive" Bay Area companies, like Facebook trying to recruit with "25 vacation days", makes me laugh.

[criley]

We can crap on the Bay Area all day long, but then the question becomes: why isn't Silicon Valley in Sweden?

[qw]

Why is Silicon Valley in California and not some other state, and why isn't there at least one other place in the United States that is comparable?

USA has 33 times the population of Sweden so if it was solely a product of a political system I would expect at least one other "Silicon Valley".

Considering that the distance between the East Coast and the West Coast is the same as the distance between Sweden and Egypt, I assume a second "Silicon Valley" would be viable.

[mindjiver]

Man, I can list so many reasons, starting with a very risk averse society, then continuing with very bad economic policies during the period after WWII up until our big finical crisis in the 1990. Please note that I have some libertarian tendencies so my views are perhaps coloured by that.

But that was not my point. My point was how low the barrier for "great benefits" where even for "spoiled" software engineers in Silicon Valley. Why not try to move the goal post a bit further?

[craigyk]

I agree, US companies should have better policies, but that would rely on the government enforcing an even playing field (not very libertarian). Otherwise there is no way any single company can stray too far from the pack without seriously damaging their competitiveness.

Maybe something like the government covering 70% of the your away pay (capped, obviously), and giving the company 15% to go toward to whatever they chose (covering you more, hiring a temp, the bottom line, etc.) The size of the company could also be a factor on how large that payment is (the smaller the company, the larger the percentage).

[timjahn]

>> These are important and formative weeks during your child and family's development. A couple of my friends just had a baby, and I can see how much they cherish every moment they spend with him.

This cannot be overstated. The first few moments/hours/days/weeks/months of your child's life (especially your first) are insanely awesome/frightening/joyous/exciting/sleep-depriving/stressful/fun/inspiring/just-freaking-cool.

It's not an experience I would want to miss for any reason. I'll probably never understand people who go back to work after a week or two.

[dagw]

I was 'lucky' enough to find myself unemployed when my daughter was born and ended up putting off getting a new job for the first three month. It was amazing. If I get another kid I'm definitely staying home for at least the first 8 weeks, and one way or the other my employer and I will have to come to some sort of agreement.

[gertef]

> A couple of my friends just had a baby, and I can see how much they cherish every moment they spend with him.

No way. "Just" had baby, parents are barely surviving, often depressed. Cherish comes months later.

[craigyk]

They are too tired and overwhelmed to even really be that depressed.

I think my wife only vaguely remembers the first three months.

[hmottestad]

Move to Norway :)

With 100% (ish) pay you get 47 weeks total, with 80% you get 57 weeks. 9 weeks are reserved for the mother and 14 weeks (or it might be 12) are reserved for the father.

[throwaway1979]

Heh ... be careful my friend! Moving to Canada when you are ready to start a family is non-trivial if your spouse isn't Canadian :(

[HorizonXP]

We are both Canadian. I'm in Toronto right now, moving to SF later this month for a while.

[gertef]

That seems... exploitative if you don't pay taxes in Canada.

[HorizonXP]

Born and raised in Canada. Plan to move to SF for a few years, then come back.