[rada]

Women in tech need you now to return our reputation to what it was before your outburst.

I disagree. She needs to attend to her physical safety, first and foremost, and her mental health, a close second. The overreaction to her tiny tweet was about a million to one and her very public flogging was so out of proportion and so misogynistic and racist that if I were her, I'd be scarred for life. It reminded me of those 3rd world stories that pop up every once in a while where some poor woman gets raped by an entire village as punishment for adultery. Let's not pile up on an already unfortunate situation by suggesting that the perpetrator of a tiny crime (if a rather temperate tweet that called a joke "not cool" can even be called a crime) has to apologize in the wake of other people's much, much larger crimes (from the firing of one of the jokers to rape threats to death threats).

On a larger note, it's never a minority group's responsibility to keep the majority prejudice-free. We really need to dispose of the silly notion that it's our responsibility as women in tech to be 100% perfect lest some men decide to withdraw their respect. We do not deserve to be held to a higher standard than men who engage in irrational, drama llama or otherwise childish behavior all the time (case in point, the dongle joke that started the whole thing).

Our reputation does not need to be "returned" because it was never "lost". Adria Richards, take care of yourself.

P.S. You said, I don't like how she's trying to speak for me and want her to apologize. Do you not see that she was not trying to speak for you any more than you tried to speak for me just now? That being born a woman does not make you the speaker for, or responsible for the reputation of, your entire gender? Otherwise you have exact same thing to apologize for.

[katherineparker]

Thanks for the input and keeping the conversation going. I respect you have your opinion but I want to address some points (just to specify, and you're of course entitled to your opinion either way):

I'm not putting her at a higher standard than a man and I don't think anyone else is. If a guy did this, I honestly think even more people would freak out.

I am speaking for women in tech and I absolutely do not have anything similar to apologize for, simply because of this fact: She said she is speaking for women in tech and she did something stupid. I'm speaking for women in tech saying Adria don't represent women and say you're doing something for women (you're a "hero") when you're actually doing something very wrong. If you want to represent us, apologize then. So yes, that does tarnish us to some degree. She needs to take responsibility for that. If she didn't proclaim to represent us then it wouldn't be a problem to me. I really don't see how that can be argued and why you're as offended as if I ruined someone's career/life at pycon. But it is your opinion.

[rada]

If she didn't proclaim to represent us then it wouldn't be a problem to me. I really don't see how that can be argued.

She said she is speaking for women in tech.

Quote please? I don't think she said or proclaimed anything of the sort. (I've just re-read her tweets and her blog post, and I couldn't find anything).

I'm speaking for women in tech.

Please stop. You do not speak for me, or any other women in tech. Your opinion is your own.

You're as offended as if I ruined someone's career/life at pycon.

I am not offended at all. Please re-read my post. Which parts did you think said or implied that you've ruined anyone's life or career?

[katherineparker]

You're saying I need to apologize. That shows me you're offended.

I don't have the quote on me, but it's online. Google more if you care to see it.

If you don't want me to speak for you, that's fine. I'm just saying most women in general would be offended to be represented by Adria and I'm saying most of us (all the dev women I know so far) are not interested in being made to look stupid through her self-proclaimed representation. I'm just trying to defend that and I'm sorry you were offended in the process. Your voice definitely counts too. I just don't understand it (I'm honestly trying).

[rada]

I don't have the quote on me, but it's online. Google more if you care to see it.

You have made a false claim about what Adria Richards said. If you do not have a quote to back it up, how can I be expected to? How could I possibly find a quote that doesn't exist?

I'm just saying most women in general would be offended to be represented by Adria.

You keep repeating that she represents all women. She doesn't. And you don't know how most women feel based on your own feelings.

You're saying I need to apologize. That shows me you're offended.

I said no such thing. Again, please re-read my post.

Your voice definitely counts too. I just don't understand it (I'm honestly trying).

No, you are not "honestly" trying. You've accused Adria Richards of saying something she didn't, I asked for a quote, and your response was "google it", even though I already said "I've just re-read her tweets and her blog post, and I couldn't find anything". You are also intentionally arguing with things I did not say; implying that I am emotional ("offended") to avoid arguing on substance; and using sarcasm like, "most women are not interested in being made to look stupid" because what, some women like me are? This is not how people maintain an honest and healthy discussion.

[lake99]

> How could I possibly find a quote that doesn't exist?

In any other circumstance, that might be OK. In this case though, she has written just ONE blog post about this incident. Obviously it makes sense to start there. She has given many interviews too about it, and commented on other websites. You could have left that for later.

Source http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont...:

<blockquote>

Women in technology need consistant messaging from birth through retirement they are welcome, competent and valued in the industry. Let’s unify the message to our daughters and to the women developers we work with:

“We want you to be here and we will do our best to welcome you into the world of programming.”

What has to change is that everyone must take personal accountability and speak up when they hear something that isn’t ok. It takes three words to make a difference:

“That’s not cool.”

</blockquote>

I am given to understand that katherineparker does not believe that she's one of these women who need to be massaged from birth to retirement, and katherineparker wishes Adria, being some kind of evangelist, had stopped "representing" women in general in this manner. That's cool. I absolutely refuse to massage anyone.

> You have made a false claim about what Adria Richards said.

False claim.

> You keep repeating that she represents all women.

Odd. KP said the opposite. There is definitely more matter for me to go on about. Just not the will.

[rada]

Me to KP: You keep repeating that she represents all women.

You to me: Odd. KP said the opposite.

Are you trolling? Let me quote KP:

If she [Adria] didn't proclaim to represent us then it wouldn't be a problem to me.

and

She [Adria] said she is speaking for women in tech.

On what planet are these statements the opposite? I quite literally quoted KP's claims verbatim.

And why did you post that random <blockquote>? Was it supposed to prove that Richards said she was speaking for all women? Because in what you quoted, she doesn't actually say that.

[katherineparker]

I could tell you the same thing ("re-read my posts") and that you're blatantly wrong. I don't really want to debate back and forth beyond where we've gone since we're just reiterating at this point (I feel like your missing a basic fact and apparently you feel the same way). I'm agreeing to disagree because I can't persuade you and you sure as hell can't persuade me and this conversation is no longer thought-provoking and its frankly a waste of time (that goes for both of us).