[avolcano]

> To truly master the art of programming, we must learn the techniques available to us, not just the tools. Data structures, algorithms, design patterns, and computer science concepts are what I’m talking about here.

Exactly how are those techniques not tools of their own? A binary tree is a tool just like a language or a framework is. A quick sort or a merge sort is just another tool - hell, if I'm using a modern language, I can quite easily get any number of sorts in libraries. And what do I gain from learning the implementation details? Divide and conquer algorithms and recursion are wonderful, but simply saying "learn QuickSort" is emphasizing the wrong things.

I'm biased. I'm 19 and never took a formal CS course. I've self-taught myself some of these concepts - not all (bit twiddling is still a mystery to me). But the best programming learning happens organically. I learned how trees worked not out of a book, but because I needed to implement a parent-child relationship in a note-taking app I built. I learned recursion by learning how to do elegant functional programming in JavaScript to simplify my code.

This is how learning happens. You code. You realize your code sucks. You learn to code better. You realize you don't know how to implement something. You learn all you can about it, then you implement it.

Learn concepts because they're practical, not because they're on a list of Shit You Need to Know For Your Whiteboarding Interview. Every single one of the concepts on that list has practical applications, but there's no reason to memorize them and know them by heart unless you plan to use all of them tomorrow.

Otherwise, you're just falling into the same trap you do using a site like CodeSchool: missing the bigger picture of hacking. You're here to build. Learn what you need to do that.

[learc83]

The problem is without learning the fundamentals, you don't know what you don't know.

I'm 29, I taught myself to program with no formal education and I've been doing it since I made games for my calculator in 8th grade.

However, I'm going back to school for a CS degree (I already had 90 hours of a history degree), and I constantly run into new stuff in my theory classes that would've saved me a lot of time on past projects.

Learning just the practical stuff that you need right now is fine if you just want to hack something together. But know that if you do it that way you'll have gaps in your knowledge that you didn't even know were there until they bite you in the ass.

[jasey]

While I agree with you I think its equally, and if not more important to have a broad high level knowledge of topics.

I taught myself recursion, threading, bit manipulation, design patterns etc as I needed them. I knew what problems they solved at a high level and only learnt the implementation when I needed to.

For example, I only knew about where you might use the decorator pattern before I had a programming test for a job which required you to "create a plugin system". A few hours learning how to actually apply it and I was good to go.

Also if you surround yourself with people smarter than you, you always have someone to point you in the right direction.

This is why I love HN, even though my background is engineering. I get a high level understanding on marketing, design, sales, hireing, product development etc etc

Its cliché, but "learning how to learn" is whats important to me.

[Hitchhiker]

The best learning curve there is. And additional irony, eventually someone on this curve eats all the white-boarding interviewing for lunch as well.