[obviouslygreen]

I really wonder how much sleep people lose worrying about their sleep habits.

Trying to micromanage everything from your sleep schedule to your work schedule to your calorie intake to your fat intake to your social media intake to your exposure to cell phone radiation results in being even more stressed out than you would be if you weren't attempting to keep track of eighty different pseudoscientific lifestyle prescriptions.

Go to sleep. Wake up. Eat food. Do those things, and try to enjoy life while you have it... burning it trying to "optimize" everything is a painful waste of time.

[malbiniak]

> I really wonder how much sleep people lose worrying about their sleep habits.

I've been having an increasing issue with sleep (not being able to fall asleep, then waking up early and not being able to fall back asleep). I've tried to combat it by being more aware of my habits and patterns, but that's resulting in sleep anxiety. Compounded with the effects of sleep deprivation and I'm easily losing sleep worrying about my sleep habits.

Sample set of 1, though.

[oyvindeh]

You can add one to your sample set.

AFAIK, worry is the main reason for poor sleep. And encountering posts like this at HN and in newspapers all the time may add to the problem.

For example, I had almost gotten back my sleep a couple of months back. And then, every newspaper (and HN) was full of this new research saying that lack of sleep alters genes. I didn't even have to read the articles, the headlines were enough: "Too little sleep is bad for you, it alters genes! My, oh my!". Thanks! Welcome back, sleep problems.

But on what grounds can they conclude that altered genes is bad for your health? The research sure says that things is happening in your body, and that some processes related to e.g. the immune system has been altered. But how bad is it really? Will you die earlier?

There are many things altering your genes. If I look at a picture of a cute kitten, I am pretty sure you can see that in my genes. Also, meditation dramatically alters you genes. (There are stories about monks who hardly need to sleep at all, because they get the rest they need through meditation.)

So, are there big problems with sleeping too little, are there really reasons to worry? I don't know. But like in in many other fields (e.g. nutrition), results of early studies have been stated as "facts", while later studies show that things are a bit more complicated. Antioxidants comes to mind.

There are research suggesting that too little sleep causes heart disease. (Note the word "suggests".) But, if there is a link, is the reason lack of sleep? Or does other factors add to it or cause it, e.g. eating more junk food, that you get more easily annoyed (increasing blood pressure), etc.?

I am not suggesting that you should sleep less, and I believe sleep is important. But I am unsure about how much you should worry if you sleep poorly.

In general, I believe more and more in eating balanced, exercising moderately (walking is good!), and most importantly, taking a break when my body tells me it's time to rest (listening to your body is underrated, and we learn from early childhood to suppress what it tells us). And, very important, stop reading health news. Because adding to almost any problem, is how media (and others) report findings to sell more of their products. They skew reality, and you probably end up worrying more than you should.

[vlasev]

Maybe you do not feel sleepy at the right times? Do you ever feel sleepy during the day? If this is so and the rest of your life permits, you should just let yourself drift into sleep.

[malbiniak]

I always feel sleepy between 2:30 and 3:00pm each day. Unfortunately my job (and my coworker's desire to flood my calendar) don't allow for midday naps.

Trust me, I've tried.

[jimmaswell]

I don't think many on the Hacker News crowd are worried about harmless cellphone radiation. At least, I hope so.

[ryguytilidie]

You're looking at this completely wrong. It's more about changing your habits than constantly thinking about what you're doing. If as a result you eat better food, the time you're awake is of better quality, and you eat better, do you really think its not worth the slightest bit of effort?

[ansible]

I really wonder how much sleep people lose worrying about their sleep habits.

If you are actually worrying about it, that is bad. If you are thinking about it a little here and there, and trying to improve what you are doing, that is good. It's all about the balance, which is sort of your point too.

[lucian1900]

If you have trouble falling asleep all the time, it is a problem that must be solved. The "go to sleep" step simply doesn't work for me much of the time. If I did nothing at all to try to sleep, I would stay awake for days, then sleep out of exhaustion (which has happened in the past).

[criley]

I reject the idea that optimization leads to burnout. If you're consciously thinking about ALL of those variables at once, yes, you will achieve burnout.

But the entire point of life optimization isn't to sit around thinking about all of this, it's to build healthy habits that allow our "autopilot" to pilot us down previously consciously decided paths.

You should be unconsciously a better person after reinforcing new healthy habits, quite identical to your final phrase of "wake up, eat," etc.

If you're burning out with optimization, you are literally doing it wrong.

[obviouslygreen]

I've done this myself to a point, but the point I'm making is that there's so much of this flying around and so much debate about so many often-unsubstantiated 'optimizations' that there's often not any real reason to believe they are optimizations.

And if they're not, people are going to waste a lot of time trying to learn new habits, then find out that they are no better off or perhaps worse, except now they're stuck with new, bad habits to unlearn.

My argument is less with optimization than with spending too much time and effort attempting it without actually gaining anything, or having a reasonable expectation of the same.

[umsm]

> they're stuck with new, bad habits to unlearn.

I think the point of this is not to optimize for the sake of optimization but to solve a problem. People have problems and they look for solutions. They try anything that can help once all else fails.

[maroun]

I absolutely agree. At the end of the day what matters the most is whether you can do something consistently. That's what produces results and leads to change.

The more you have to "work" to lead a healthy life the less likely it is that you'll stay consistent. Find what works for you and incorporate it into your routine.