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by skoodge 4802 days ago
[OP here, figured it might be helpful to actually create an account...]

In that case, could you please name a few artists that you believe did exactly that? I'm honestly interested in finding more of such art. But before you do, let me rephrase what I wrote above, because it's easy to misunderstand one short sentence (and I'm definitely guilty of not explaining very well what I mean): When I talk about art around and about software, I mean

a) art, i.e. not just something beautiful or well-crafted, but something which explores the human condition with an artistic purpose

b) around software, i.e. art that uses code as an integral part of the artwork (not just a painting about programming for example)

c) about software, i.e. it does not only use code to convey something, but code itself is the subject (Code for Code's sake)

I'm honestly not aware of anything that fits this description before _why's work (or at least of nothing that I would consider as art, and yes, that's somewhat hard to define). More concretely, I would exclude any works that simply praise mathematical / structural elegance, perfection or purity. Even though their creators may be artists and use artistic methods, I would hesitate to call such works "Art" with a capital A.

So, games/demos/processing sketches/audi-visual programming/software patterns/etc all do not fit these criteria. They may be very skillful works of art, but none of them tackle the subject of software & code at their core. While many focus on the mathematical perfection in code, _why focused on human imperfection and a creator's struggle while writing code.

3 comments

> or at least of nothing that I would consider as art

That probably is part of the problem here.

For starters, you could try looking into Jeffrey Shaw & Gideon May.

Netochka Nezvanova is another name that springs to mind (but that likely will not qualify by some of your criteria), the Electronic Disturbance Theater is another.

There are probably 100's if not 1000's of artists that have chosen to use the computer as their medium of choice, usually they don't make the code central to the expression because the code is the vehicle.

But there are definitely artists that craft with the code as their central means of expression.

I feel that by first stating something overbroad and now redefining it in a way that is overly narrow to then be able to say that 'see, nobody fits the exact same niche' is a bit of a cheap trick, after all, _why was just _why, unique, like every other artist. So no, if you keep on adding conditions why nobody was like him or even crafting 'art' you can easily exclude the rest of the world and maintain your claim. But that's a pretty limiting act and it seems like a very technical way to win the argument.

_why was neither the first, the last or particularly special in what he did unless you mean special to be used as 'specific' rather than as a claim to quality. He successfully promoted himself, his art and incidentally the ruby language. But that does not warrant such overbroad claims as were made above.

I agree that at least my use of the word "art" wasn't sufficiently explained (isn't that always the case? ;)), but my other 2 conditions were definitely present in the original text. I am not trying to "win" this argument by artificially narrowing the definition, I am honestly interested in finding more artists with the same qualities.

Regarding the artists you selected, I am not familiar with all their major works and I will definitely look into their artworks more thoroughly later, but at first glance all of them can be categorized as Audi-Visual-Software art / Internet art / political activism using code as art / etc. Put differently, I could imagine seeing all of them in connection with the Ars Electronica selection for example. Would you really label _why with any of these genres? Or suggest that his work might fit in the Prix Ars Electronica categories? To me his work has a very distinct feel from all the artists you listed and belongs in a different genre. I tried to capture this distinct quality in my above definition, where the most important aspect is definitely that the art must be "about software" (and more specifically about code). His works are all much more introspective than what I have seen elsewhere.

The best allegory that springs to mind is this: While other artists often used code ingeniously to look at many different aspects of technology & culture, _why was the first artist who used code to look back at code and its development process itself and also necessarily the developer cultures around it. This is probably also one reason why he was so tied to the Ruby community. I could understand if you find this definition to be too narrow, but to me this "closing of the loop", this self reference is a very distinct quality.

> this self reference is a very distinct quality

http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/little-schemer

I am surprised that it too so long to mention the most obvious inspiration for _why's poignant guide to ruby.
(I like _why and I don't have any problem with the attention he receives or anything. But I did kind of agree with some of the "that's rubbish" responses to the "first" stuff.)

I'm reasonably sure I won't agree with you on any definition of art. But, uh, here's some stuff. I may-or-may-not think of some of it as art. I do think it's stuff that keeps the coding world from being some dreadful place of "craftsmanship" and "professionalism" and things.

The miniKanren presentations are wonderful. They're all "and now let's run this stuff backwards. Because because." http://www.infoq.com/presentations/miniKanren

Meta-circular evaluators. Page 13 of http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/book/LISP%... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m6hoOelZH8&list=ECE18841... http://www.scheme.com/tspl4/examples.html#./examples:h7 ("After completing the preceding exercise, use the interpreter to run a copy of the interpreter, and use the copy to run another copy of the interpreter. Repeat this process to see how many levels deep it will go before the system grinds to a halt." :D)

SICP opens with this: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-3.html I think it's lovely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edsger_W._Dijkstra "One of Dijkstra's sidelines was serving as Chairman of the Board of the fictional Mathematics Inc., a company that he imagined having commercialized the production of mathematical theorems in the same way that software companies had commercialized the production of computer programs. He invented a number of activities and challenges of Mathematics Inc. and documented them in several papers in the EWD series."

Also obfuscated code and some esolang stuff, I guess.

I remember some competition that was about creating and hiding some bug that did some particular thing in code that appeared to do something else, in a way that seemed (if discovered) like it was a mistake. That was cute.

Oh, and maybe http://sigbovik.org/ Maybe not.

The Perl community has always had a large artist component. Perl Golf is an artistic endeavor. Perl Poetry is a real thing.

The UNIX community has a similar artistic component. It's built into the genes of the thing, really. There is humor, beauty, politics, and more, in the UNIX tradition. The free unices, in particular, have always been about a love of the process and a celebration of human expression.

_why took it in a highly original direction. No argument from me on that. I think _why was/is/always shall be awesome. But, it's not the first time someone used code as art, directly and without intermediary forms.

What makes _why special, perhaps, is that he made it impossible to miss the art. The art was not subtle, it was not for coders only, and it was cognizant of the knowledge gap that makes so many people fearful of code and unaware of the art contained therein.

_why's totally cool and stuff (and bold, and visionary, and very likable). But, let's not get hyperbolic about his place in the pantheon of code and beauty.

Damian Conway may be an example of a virtuoso of the form. His diversionary works[1] have no practical value, but explore the corners of what can be done with Perl, and do so in a way that delights, inspires, and encourages reflection. It's his mastery of the tool that allows him to express his cleverness and wit as art.

HAKMEM contains many other examples of original thought around the pulchritudinous value of code in itself, and not just via its result.

[1] For example, Acme::Bleach and Lingua::Romana::Perligata, found on http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/