[nnq]

For the record, the poignant guide to Ruby was what made me turn my attention towards Python... everything about it felt "wrong" to me in a way that seemed generalizable to the whole Ruby culture (yeah, this changed for the better in the meantime, and now it's an ok language with a "culture" that doesn't feel so "wrong" for people who think like me).

[ritchiea]

Can you be more specific about what seemed wrong to you about the culture surrounding ruby? I'm curious.

[jablan]

I can try to explain my impression, which is quite similar, only, in my case, wasn't strong enough to drive me away from Ruby. I started reading Poignant Guide with the aim of improving my Ruby knowledge (I started with Pickaxe and was quite satisfied with it), and learning Ruby idioms and philosophy better.

Instead, I found a cryptic artsy graphic novel full of absurd humour, cultural references and so on. I found it hard to understand. It made me feel stupid and inferior (especially as English is not my native language). On the other hand, the community was full of praise for the book, so, I felt unwelcome and intimidated. The community seemed to be headed by elitist wizards, which were inventing their own culture, their own "secret language" and initiation rites. Almost a cult.

Anyway, I hadn't gave up on Ruby, I like it (and I think I mastered it quite well), I appreciate the beautiful ecosystem built around it, just don't take "idols and prophets" that serious anymore.

Not sure if the similar sentiment is shared by the GP though.

[adrianoconnor]

<quote>The community seemed to be headed by elitist wizards, which were inventing their own culture, their own "secret language" and initiation rites. Almost a cult.</quote>

I think you read way too much in to it :( I mean, WPGTR is like Monty Python. Some people love it -- really love it -- and others don't. You didn't need to feel alienated, because plenty of other people didn't get it either. And _why might have spoke at conferences, but he was very separate from the people who 'headed' ruby at the time.

[MrBra]

I wouldn't put it as in a negative way as you did when you say you feel stupid and inferior for not being an english native speaker, but I can feel you. It's one of those moment you say to yourself: hey, I've always been better than any non native local english speaker, now how is that I get only 1 sentence out of 4? And you feel jealous of those who are "gifted" to be english native speakers. you eventually end up wishing for a translated version.. so why not taking the occasion to ask if someone would be interested in doing that? Of course I can't tell you what language I'd like it to be translated in, because it'd be a step further in destroying my anonimity ;) Well, it wouldn't matter anyway, because I am sure it would be translated in other languages too afterward, and my language would certainly be covered.. wouldn't it? We should poll and check how many and which would be the more requested languages.. as a start? So yea, hope someone catches this up...

[alxndr]

> I started reading Poignant Guide with the aim of improving my Ruby knowledge

Well there's your first problem.

[jablan]

I understand that (now), however, PGR has often been recommended as an introductory book to Ruby, while it should be considered a piece of art in the first place. I guess _why should have chosen a bit more esoteric language as a vehicle. Luckily, there's plenty of them floating around ever since the fifties. :)

[pygy_]

The Poignant Guide predates Rails. Ruby was still obscure at the time.

[nnq]

EDIT: I quickly misread the question and referred mostly to the book, but the same things applied to the "culture" as well

Ok, biting the troll bate and here we go :)...

1. Lack of focus on "just making (cool) stuff" (compare it with "Dive Into Python" and other Python or Perl tutorials) - it didn't feel "hacker/maker spirit" at all

2. Too many words, too little code - I think in code, pictures and occasionally equations: words are ok too, but not when their only purpose is making "opinionated" jokes. And the illustrations literally hurt my brain - I expect nicely crafted images that explain concepts, not weird jokes that have nothing to do with them!

3. Not many interesting concepts - I'm ok with not focusing on making "coll stuff" with a piece of technology you're just learning and with not being "hacker spirited", but if you don't do it this way, at least present interesting mind-opening concepts to the reader (just compare it with "Practical Common Lisp" or a Haskell tutorial - they give you so much tasty mindfood that the style doesn't even matter anymore, they could've been written in the style of a medical research article and still be enjoyable to read). Ruby didn't bring any interesting new concepts to me - it was Smalltalky OOP and the coolness of blocks that could've been just lambdas anyway...

4. Lots of stupid jokes that I didn't find funny at all, and made me feel stupid that maybe there was something I didn't understand but was supposed to, and cultural references that were very "WTF" (I'm European, but I've been pretty well exposed to US culture and I like "american style humor" but this felt like totally from a different planet).

5. This one is subjective don't mean to offend, just to be honest: I hate the whole gay (not necessarily in a sexual way), touchy, feely, friendly way of presenting technical things - I'm more of a "cold British humor", occasional "mildly offensive jokes" and a touch of "mental testosterone" kind of guy (this is the king of attitude that, for example, appeals to me in an aesthetic way: http://programming-motherfucker.com/ )

6. Despite being clear that learning resources like WPGR were opinionated and would only appear to people whose minds work in a certain way, they were recommended to all newbies. I like a culture that doesn't shove opinionated stuff in the face of new guys - first let them find "their own way", then show them the "opinionated ways".

7. There was a "split personality" thing that annoyed me: Ruby as a language appealed to the "hacker spirited" a lot, but the community was pulling in different direction that I couldn't really comprehend - a weird lust for a code-aesthetic-nirvana or something...