[lmgftp]

Willingness to pay is someone's valuation. That's not the real value. That's not the inherent value. The inherent value of BTC is nill, except as a speculative commodity.

I won't further comment on BTC since both sides are staunchly rooted in their positions.

[vrotaru]

> That's not the inherent value.

Show me your inherent-value-meter, or shut up. Simple, eh?

[rrrrtttt]

People here are saying over and over again that there is no such thing as "real value". That's bullshit. Economists have great ways to measure real value. For example, for financial assets real value is net present value of future cash flows. For currencies, real value is parity purchasing power. (Bitcoin is not a currency in this sense.) Things have real value.

[vrotaru]

> Things have real value.

That's dodging the question. And in a rather clumsy way. The "use value" of things depends heavily on epoch, person, even fashion and weather. So what is exactly "real" in real value?

> the present value of future cash flows

You don't say! Sorry but a) future cash flows is an estimation at best b) the present value of future cash flows depends heavily on the circumstances of the valuator.

On whether you have a debt to a mobster to pay, or an angry girlfriend to placate..

[mikeash]

Why would you measure "real value" with future cash flows when cash itself clearly has no "real value" at all beyond toilet paper?

[Nursie]

Kindling, also emergency clothing if you have a lot of the cotton-paper type and maybe a stapler or something...