[shubb]

One thing I've noticed about large organizations is that they pay more. Pay is set in a structured way with regular pay rises, so you can just sit tight and watch it rise.

Additionally, you can move around without leaving the company. Why is that important? Check the graph from the long term unemployment article[1]. Personally, I like to move every 2 years, so that's kind of important.

I'm going to write about something of personal interest now. Downvote away. It's a bit UK specific.

Something I've noticed, looking at the people I graduated with 8 years ago, is that the ones who have done well went to work for large companies. They did a grad scheme, stayed in the role after it had finished, and just sat tight, maybe moving a couple of times within the company.

They earn a multiple of those that didn't - the PHDs, sure that's expected, but also much more than the freelancers and those who have hopped between small programming houses. Certainly more than people who did something fashionable, like fashion, the arts, or teaching English abroad.

The funny thing is that those left behind don't have an opportunity to get on that gravy train now. Grad programs are for recent graduates. Experienced hires from companies the recruiter has heard of get first place.

Another effect (an this is UK specific) has been in mortgages. Since 2008, you need to save maybe 70k dollars in order to get one. That's a full years pay for a software engineer. 4 if you count tax. But rents are double or triple mortgage interest, so unless you already have one, you won't save that.

So we have this widening wealth gap between those who got onto, and stayed in, a graduate program 2008, and the rest. It will really be quite something in future.

The BBC did some analysis where they collected data about the population (wealth, cultural signifier), and clustered it. They found 7 distinct clusters, and decided to invent a new 'social class', called 'emergent service workers'. This turned out to mean 'young people who graduated since 2008'. I suspect they will be a generation of lifetime renters, doing similar jobs for a little less money than their peers 2 years older (starting salary has a compounded effect, and is suppressed by maybe 1/4 right now).

I don't really see this in the press. As usual, they don't notice things.

We live as ever in interesting times.

[1]http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/business/LongTer... [2] www.bbc.co.uk/labuk/experiments/class

[paganel]

> The funny thing is that those left behind don't have an opportunity to get on that gravy train now.

For what is worth, I noticed that also (not in the UK, but somewhere else in Europe). My ex-wife, a psychology major, managed to get hired into a big oil company doing procurement work (yes, they were that desperate at hiring people) around 2005-2006. Of course, in the meantime she has gathered a ton of experience and she'd have no problems whatsoever of picking another similar job at another big company.

For comparison, looking at kids aged 22 to 24 who have just graduated it seems like they're, well, fucked. Nobody will hire them in a big company for lack of work experience and they can't get any experience because nobody wants to hire them.

[potatolicious]

> " looking at kids aged 22 to 24 who have just graduated it seems like they're, well, fucked. Nobody will hire them in a big company for lack of work experience and they can't get any experience because nobody wants to hire them."

IMO this makes a strong case for working with small companies. Big companies are relatively risk averse and will look for external validation of the candidate - certifications, degrees, impressive prior experience, etc.

It's much easier for a young person lacking experience today to approach a small business and successfully pitch them on an internship or some contract work. A large corporation is too hamstrung by HR, by policy, and by its own approval chain, to take advantage of things like this.

[shubb]

Speaking of which, if anyone is reading this from the UK, and has an ~ 18 year old who doesn't want to go to university, BAE are recruiting heavily for apprenticeships. They are very serious about providing a 'university alternative'. I suggest taking a look.

[kozikow]

London is city of finance. There are only few good technology companies that happened there. A few years majority of good people went to investment banking and starting a company was perceived as reckless. Probably a lot of programming places was kind of outsourcing places, not creating long term product.

Would you relate your situation to the Silicon Valley, where majority of new tech companies have been created? How would you compare situation of your friends to situation of people who joined Google 15 years ago, or Facebook 8 years ago?

I would bet that in UK ratio of revenue of big companies to small companies is much higher than in Silicon Valley.

[shubb]

You make good points, I certainly wouldn't extend this to America, or even other parts of Europe.

It is true that a lot of London money is made in finance, but we also have some giant engineering companies and subsidiaries, such as Rolls Royce, BAE. Sony, Huawei, IBM, Siemens, and others have large research presences in the suburbs, because engineers are cheaper here than in America, but we have more aggressive IP laws than China or India.

If you want a big company to get lost in as an engineer or project manager, there is no lack of them.

Working at a startup, hoping for an IPO, is a high risk high reward gamble. People choose to do it because it gives them agency over their work and futures in a way that being part of a big machine does not, but most fail, and we should be aware when we take a risk what that risk is, hence my post.

Taking advantage of London's competitive advantage in finance, a lot of financial startups have won really big, setting up major energy trading exchanges and brokerages, though you wouldn't hear of them outside the industry.

I'm more cynical about the current wave of London web startups.

Would I suggest a young Londoner goes to work at a startup? This city has a bit of an unpaid internships culture, and I fear they would get the same experience as at a larger company, for less CV impact and no money. Get into computer security at KPMG, you'll get rich.

[pnathan]

Around 2010, 2009 I noticed some articles come out that observed that in general, people who graduate in a recession have lesser lifelong earnings than people who graduate in a boom.