[declan]

I agree with tptacek (hi there!) that CISPA is not that difficult to parse, and that people might as well read it for themselves. More: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57579012-38/privacy-protec...

But I disagree with his "Michigan Militia" analogy, which is a bit silly. Another way to look at it is that starting with Clipper, CDA, CALEA, crypto export controls (plus mandatory domestic key escrow approved by a House committee), we've lived through 20 years of ill-advised regulation. So unless the merits of a new proposed law clearly outweigh the downsides, which is not the case in CISPA, a measure of skepticism is reasonable.

[tptacek]

Wait, what? We don't have Clipper or key escrow of any sort. You seem to be arguing that every measure ever introduced into Congress has to be judged against the dumbest ideas ever introduced into Congress.

[declan]

tptacek: You're quite right that neither are with us today. The reason: Clipper and key escrow were defeated by the same advocacy groups you claim, without any evidence, are trying to "fundraise by convincing willfully ignorant nerds" CISPA is bad.

I can imagine FBI director Louis Freeh saying the same thing when he was defending bans on non-escrowed encryption in the late 1990s: "Nothing wrong with mandatory key escrow! Silly ACLU EFF EPIC etc. are just trying to fundraise off of fear and emotion."

[tptacek]

What does EFF's opposition to Clipper have to do with what CISPA says?

You yourself have conceded on HN that advocacy groups have directly misstated details about CISPA. Now you're writing comments suggesting that I'm being misleading by pointing that track record out. That is not honest debate, Declan.

[declan]

tptacek: Two points. First, if an employee has a history of writing bad code, you may scrutinize their efforts more closely in the future. Same with Congress. I was making a historical point for context that based on rdl's mention below.

Second, I'm not aware that anything ACLU EFF EPIC said that's intentionally false re: CISPA. As you correctly say, other groups may not be as careful (although even then, you could have unintentional falsehoods, and I rarely like to speculate about motives).

[tptacek]

How many of the names on CISPA were in Congress for Clipper? Answer: Frank LoBiondo. That's it, out of a long list of names. Congress is not one monolithic thing.