[sireat]

Sadly, the problem is that the older you does not get the same out of 10k hours of deliberate practice than the younger you.

Let's take chess: 10k hours of deliberate practice in your teen years will make you a master level player (and possibly near GM caliber if you think Polgar experiment was not a fluke).

There are no known instances of someone starting to play chess after age of 30 and getting near GM. Conversely, I've known people who retired in their 40s and dedicated themselves to chess and could not achieve more than a 50-100 point gain.

I would love to be proven wrong, but I suspect the story is the same with piano, violin and programming.

Your 10k hours at age 40 will not get you near anywhere the same return than 10k hours at age 10-16.

I would love to see some references to people achieving mastery in some field past the age of 40 starting from scratch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroplasticity is supposed to show that it is possible to get good at a later age, but I am very skeptical.

[kylescheele]

I'll agree with the idea that it's harder for the older you to master something than it is for the younger you, but I don't think it has to do with physiological reasons. I think it has to do with things like time, commitments, obligations, and fears.

When you're young, you have more time, less commitments and obligations (family, job, etc.), and generally less fears (if I screw this up, it's fine because I'm 17). As you grow older, these things get added on and it becomes difficult to motivate yourself to actually spend the 10k hours.

If you're talking about something like skateboarding, I think you're right that younger people will learn it better and faster than old people, because it's inherently physical. If you're talking about a mental task, I think it's a matter of whether or not you will sit down and do the work.

[vwinsyee]

I agree that less time and more obligations does make learning new things more difficult later in life. But there's also evidence that fluid intelligence [1] peaks in young adulthood and declines with older age.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_and_crystallized_intellig... : "This decline may be related to local atrophy of the brain in the right cerebellum. Other researchers have suggested that a lack of practice, along with age-related changes in the brain may contribute to the decline."

[ekm2]

And there is also evidence that you can increase you fluid intelligence[1] [1]http://www.pnas.org/content/105/19/6791.full

[incision]

Well said.

I think this discussion [1] from other day is relevant.

Basically, getting old and taking on more responsibilities doesn't necessarily have to mean becoming less productive as long as you can adapt your strategy and habits.

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5488037

[wuest]

Anecdotal data, admittedly not perfectly analogous.

I got serious about playing the game of go relatively late in life for a go player--I was 23 years old at the time. In 2 years of hard study (1~2h/day, and a bit more on weekends) I rose from essentially a complete beginner to dan level play. Since then, life has pulled me away from playing go as actively, but the work I do at this point does let me maintain my level of play.

I think it's fair to say that you get MORE out of your effort at a younger age, but at the same time, I think that if you're serious about learning and honest about the way you learn, you can absolutely get a LOT out of those hours--and that ultimately, you can get the same utility as you would have, by tailoring your studies to the way you learn more effectively.

[CubanSandwich]

Out of interest, where would advise a beginner to start playing go online?

[empthought]

Julia Child didn't learn gourmet cooking until her late 30s.

I think part of the trouble is that that the definition of "mastery" is so fluid. In chess, is "grandmaster" really the bar you want to set? Why not just "master" or even "expert?"

In another area, some percentage of medical doctors receive their degrees after age 40. Is that achievement + licensure sufficient to call it "mastery?"

[watsonc73]

Colonel Sanders has to exemplify the late bloomer. From odd job to odd job, he was broke at age 65 before he franchised out what is now KFC. 10k+ hours of frying chicken without anything to show for it. His decision to sell on his recipe to restaurant owners changed all that.

Lesson: Master a skill that you can franchise and protect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2E0jMx0AqE

[asciimo]

True, but at least you will be the chess boss at the retirement home.