[abraininavat]

You were arguing so well, but then you sunk so low. "if you hate it that much, there are places you could go." ? Who implied I hate this place? I've suggested we should change it, in my opinion for the better. You've fallen squarely in line with those who would call me unpatriotic for not blindly marching along with your worldview.

I think for myself. You get your marching orders from some parchment. It's people like me who made this country. It's people like you who bowed to King George.

[shpxnvz]

> I think for myself. You get your marching orders from some parchment. It's people like me who made this country. It's people like you who bowed to King George.

I won't speak for bmelton but it's disingenuous to label second amendment supporters as folks who "get [their] marching orders from some parchment". Most I know recognize the right to self-defense as merely being guaranteed by the constitution rather than granted by it. The confusion I suspect is from the "parchment" often being used as a convenient argument - many in this country take for granted uniform agreement that the document does in fact bind the government; ergo to them the argument is trivially won by quoting it.

They do not always realize that those they argue against view the constitution as a "living" document subject to interpretation, and may summarily discard arguments that appeal to it's guarantees. It is also damaging to their argument that so many are willing to to support the government's disregard of the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 9th and 10th amendments while fervently supporting the 2nd.

[bmelton]

As I mentioned elsewhere, I think that's kind of polarizing. I am (obviously) a supporter of the second amendment, but I and all my liberty-minded peers support the entirety of the Bill of Rights, even where we don't necessarily agree with it.

The main thing that's polarizing it though, is that the ACLU supports all of the bill of rights except for the second amendment, so those that support the second feel like they're the only ones that are.

[shpxnvz]

To be clear, I was not referring to you in any way. I was just positing why the above poster may have concluded that those who speak out in support of the 2nd amendment are marching to the parchment.

Maybe it's polarizing, but there really are only two sides in this fight. There's no middle ground here - there is the ideal of freedom or there is "compromise". Not a compromise in the proper sense of the word, though. It is a pure loss, for you have less freedom than you started with and nothing in return. Votes cost nothing, so this compromise can be (and is) demanded over and over again. The end result is what we face in Maryland, never-ending iterations of legislation with no rational link to the real world, and thousands (like myself) who dream of moving to a state that is slightly more free.

[bmelton]

Oh, I know. I thought your comments were poignant, and mine weren't meant as disagreement. I was just responding to the lsat part, "It is also damaging to their argument that so many are willing to to support the government's disregard of the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 9th and 10th amendments while fervently supporting the 2nd."

It often seems like people that support the second amendment care about none of the others, and I'm sure in part that is true for a number of reasons, but that doesn't discount that there are many more "second amendment supporters" who are concerned with the broader spectrum of civil liberties, but whose views aren't necessarily represented because there are groups like the ACLU that represent "all civil rights except that one" and the like.

Are you also in Maryland? Have you considered (or are you already) joining Maryland Shall Issue?

[shpxnvz]

I understand, and it's a good point. That statement was just a personal lament based on my observations of the community of 2nd amendment supporters over the last few years.

I am in Maryland, Carroll County specifically. I'm a member of MSI, SAF and the NRA and have been engaging as much as possible with our senators and delegates over the last few weeks.

I'll likely be retreating to Pennsylvania or Virginia in the next couple of years - I'm sure many others will be as well. In the meantime, keep your powder dry and perhaps we'll meet one day on the range. :)

[bmelton]

I was speaking pragmatically of course. Maryland is on the precipice of banning "assault weapons" and "high capacity magazines", and as a result, I'm looking in to moving to another state that respects my rights more.

I wasn't implying that hated 'the place', but you clearly seem to have issues with the second amendment. You're of course welcome to try to change things, and I would argue in fact that it is your patriotic responsibility to work for the government you want. That said, a big distinction between America and most other first world countries is wrapped up in the second amendment, so if I were in your shoes, I would likely consider moving. As I said, I'm not telling you to get out, and I'm not calling you unpatriotic, I'm just suggesting that voting with your feet is an option available to you. As there aren't any first world countries that respect the right to bear arms for me to go to, that regrettably isn't an option for me. I'm jealous of your position, if anything.

I don't know how either of us "made this country", and surely neither of us are old enough to have bowed to any King, so I'm not really sure what your point is with your last sentence.