[UnoriginalGuy]

So if I set up a "boys only" tech club or society, people wouldn't be screaming bloody murder, calling me sexist, and claiming that I was trying to keep women out of tech' and or reinforcing the glass ceiling?

Because frankly, I cannot see that going down well at all...

[steveklabnik]

From the front page of http://www.pyladies.com/ :

> Anyone with an interest in Python is encouraged to participate!

You're making an unfounded assumption that PyLadies is women only.

[UnoriginalGuy]

Fine, so what if I created something with the goal of:

> We are an international mentorship group with a focus on helping more men become active participants and leaders in the Python open-source community.

How do you think that would go down?

[dougnap]

Similar to how the Young Men's Christian Association (YMCA) went down, I would imagine...

Or are you arguing that all organizations that have a focus on expanding the role of a minority in a community that are inclusive to all in that community should be shut down because you believe some people would complain about having one focused on the majority?

That is some twisted and messed up logic there.

http://wearebit.com/ has quite the presence as SXSW. Haven't heard similar complaints about that...

[UnoriginalGuy]

I think organisations have good intentions (reduce racism, sexism, etc) but in general unless they're very careful with their message they can do more harm than good.

They try to raise women up but often times manage to do so in such a way (special treatment, privilege) which eats away at the respectability of not only the women they're trying to raise up but other women who got there on their own merits.

I think we should do all we can to remove obstacles for women getting into tech', and that includes bad attitudes/sexism, however I think many of these organisations and "positive discrimination" are an obstacles that women unfortunately will need to overcome...

[dougnap]

So.... there is no problem then. The PyLadies are exactly the type of organization that you support. No special treatment, no privilege. As a male member of the PyLadies I thank you for your support!

Please consider coming by one of the events!

[king_jester]

Nobody in tech would bat an eye, although I would find it a bit ridiculous to try and get more men to be active in the Python community when the majority of the python community is men.

[rozap]

While I support what these groups (like pyladies) are trying to do, you're not being honest with yourself if you think no one would bat an eye at forming a men's advocacy group. It absolutely would not go over well to have a group advocating male involvement in tech (not to mention it would be useless and a waste of time).

[andrewdupont]

I know I wouldn't give a damn.

If your goal is that nobody on earth would bat an eye, that's a pretty high bar to clear. Keep in mind that some people (and a healthy percentage of them represented here on HN) find the existence of Pyladies troublesome. I suspect a similar percentage would find the existence of Pygentlemen troublesome.

[king_jester]

That would be true (I would be definitely notice), but at the same time I feel it would be likely we would see some folks who see nothing wrong with it and give it attention over groups like PyLadies, groups that serve people who don't really get the same kind of attention, representation, or space in tech.

[budde]

Men are not an underrepresented group in tech. It is not at all the same situation. Do you really not see that?

[UnoriginalGuy]

Discrimination hurts the under-represented group; positive discrimination for women hurts women.

[pekk]

I wouldn't be screaming. I love to see Python groups. KKKPython might have trouble getting funding from PSF, but nobody should care if you want to get together to talk about Clojure only with gay dentists.

[budde]

PyLadies is not a female-exclusive group, and even if it were, there's a big difference between a group meant to advocate for and affirm an underrepresented group in the tech space and one that reinforces the attitudes that have led to that underrepresentation in the first place.