[esbwhat]

>Who's the sexist again?

most of the time, the person asking that sort of question

Nice misrepresentation of what I said, by the way. It's not about the joke, it's about what's behind it. Women are frequently objectified in jokes, and the Technology industry hasn't exactly been the most welcoming to women. When you make a sexual joke in front of a woman in this context, she might feel inclined to think about what's behind that joke. And you will feel that no matter the intention, the tech industry is not one that has proven itself to be mature enough to be given the benefit of the doubt.

[rabino]

Because sexual jokes are exclusive for men? For some reason a dingle joke is offensive to women, but it's ok between dudes? Sorry, I _really_ don't understand the argument. I'm no trying to be funny or anything. I live in a place where we don't have a big problem with sexism, so I'm trying to understand what's going on.

[esbwhat]

Again, context matters. When a man makes a sexual joke and a woman makes a sexual joke, it's not the same thing because there are different implications to it.

Women are often sexualized and/or objectified, specifically by men. When a man makes a sexual joke, even if he is not directly sexualizing a woman, that can make some women uncomfortable, because of the societal context behind it.

Tech conferences already have kind of a bad reputation towards building an inviting atmosphere for women. Now imagine you are in a place where you might feel a little bit vulnerable, and you hear something like that. It's easy to take it the wrong way, regardless of the intent behind the joke. All this is completely ignoring that in a professional settings, these kinds of jokes are inappropriate anyway.

[jimzvz]

>Again, context matters. When a man makes a sexual joke and a woman makes a sexual joke, it's not the same thing because there are different implications to it.

My brain cannot even comprehend how you can believe such bullshit. I feel like am living in some kind of satirical novel when these incidents happen and people defend it with these type of statements.

[roberto]

Imagine it's night, and you're a woman alone at a bus stop, in an empty street. Two men arrive, also waiting for the bus. While they're waiting, they start making sexual jokes.

Now imagine you're a man in the same situation, and two women arrive. They start making sexual jokes. Can you see the difference?

Just like you can tell your boss a joke where someone's getting fired, but you could feel uncomfortable if he was the one telling the joke. Asymmetry of power -- in the gender case, of physical power -- means that context matters.

[jimzvz]

>Can you see the difference?

No, I can't because every man is not a rapist. Your scenario assumes that the men are malevolent and the women benevolent. If you remove this prejudice, you will see the scene as I do. The same thing.

>Just like you can tell your boss a joke where someone's getting fired, but you could feel uncomfortable if he was the one telling the joke.

The comparison is flawed in three ways. Firstly, every boss can potentially fire an employee but every man is not a rapist. If two known rapists came and sat next to me at a bus stop and started making sexual jokes, I would feel scared even as a man.

Secondly, sexual jokes describe any joke that is related to something sexual. A joke where someone is getting fired is very specific and has a victim. You cannot compare the two (unless you are imagining a small subset of sexual jokes that have a victim but this is not what we are talking about).

Thirdly, In your bus stop scene the two men are engaged in private conversation. In your office scene, the boss is telling the joke directly to the employee.

[roberto]

Ok, you can't see the difference then. Fair enough.

[esbwhat]

Society treats people differently depending on who they are. Men have certain privileges not afforded to women. If examining situations in a social context, this cannot be ignored. There is a reason this conference was BOASTING about having 20% women attending.

We cannot treat everyone as if they are the same if the playing field is not level.

In a vacuum, there should be no difference. But we do not live in a vacuum.

[jimzvz]

Yes, treating people differently will almost certainly result in people being treated the same. Not really though, it has never worked and will never work probably because it is illogical.

This is part of the reason why so called "male privilege" is actually bullshit. There are so many double standards and exceptions negatively effecting males that they are actually at a disadvantage in a rapidly increasing number of areas.

[esbwhat]

hahaha ok

I suppose you are against affirmative action too.