[rxcfc]

Knowing Trek, I think his frustration here is in large part with himself. He cares very deeply about giving users a good experience with Ember and knows that we aren't achieving that as well as we'd like. We've been planning and working on an improved Getting Started story for a while now but, because all of us on the Core Team are very busy with our day jobs, it's been slower going that we would have liked.

To have more people point out your shortcomings when you're already well aware of them is very frustrating. I think this is what we're seeing in Trek's response. Now that doesn't mean that I think his response is helpful - it's not. But I do want it to be clear that we do care about these issues and sometimes maybe too much.

When our new Getting Started Guide is finally released, I promise that we will do our best to address all of the different comments and complaints we receive from our users.

-Peter Wagenet, Ember Core Team Member

[Uchikoma]

If he cares that deeply, I'd suggest walk instead of talk and fix the problems now instead of hand waving. The Emberjs documentation problems have been there since the beginning.

Instead of commenting on #HN how awful ungrateful sarcastic users are, write a new "Getting started" page.

[mgrassotti]

I don't think trek called anyone ungrateful. He's just tired. Also he already is working on a new getting started page. A few days ago he posted to the forum outlining his plan and asking for feedback. http://discuss.emberjs.com/t/todomvc-based-getting-started-g...

[joshstrange]

Peter, I get this, I get this 100x over. When I put my time/effort into something I try to do my very best. A user telling me it's wrong/broken/sucks makes me feel like my best isn't good enough. My point was that publicly a response like this hurts far more than the satisfaction you get from posting it. Trust me, I have been burned by this before and I had to learn from it. I have never used Ember.js but I plan to, I think it looks cool and have seen a few projects that use it to do really cool things. A response like this makes the community look un-inviting, the whole "Figure it out yourself"/"It's not worth my time to help you" attitude is not productive. I may realize that one developer does not speak for the entire project but not everyone will and there will be people turned off by such a response. I would hate to see Ember.js suffer because one developer found it against his "rules" to respond AND took the time to make sure everyone knew how he felt.

[jackmaney]

Why was the Getting Started Guide not at (or near) the top of your priority list for documentation?

[mgrassotti]

It is. http://discuss.emberjs.com/t/todomvc-based-getting-started-g...

[jackmaney]

Actually, let me clarify: why wasn't a Getting Started Guide/Quickguide/"Hello World" equivalent/etc one of the first written pieces of official Ember.js documentation?

[rxcfc]

It didn't come earlier because some of the core patterns were still solidifying. It would have been premature to put together something that was likely to change a lot. Now that we've hit RC the API is stable so it makes much more sense.