[eksith]

Thank you. I should make it clear that I'm still on OK terms with those people. It wasn't so much a direct "you're stupid" or else I wouldn't speak to them again, but more of a "that's just stupid that you can't get it". Which I guess is a long about way of saying almost the same thing, but I think they held back.

I can try to do something with it again if I have time, but I feel it's going to be a long and laborious process before I start to get comfortable. I used to unconsciously put semicolons ;)

[tensor]

Interestingly, I now unconsciously do this switching back to C:

(printf "%d" i)

Before I forget and switch back. I strongly suspect that the people who can't adapt are having difficulty because they are not programming with the new syntax full time. Practicing at night while the majority of your time is still spent with some other language is not the same thing. This is also true for learning human language and is why immersion programs are so successful.

Further, I absolutely do not buy the claims that people have that they can understand haskell easily but not lisp. Haskell might look more familiar at a casual glance, but its syntax takes a substantial amount of time to really understand.

[bobwaycott]

> I strongly suspect that the people who can't adapt are having difficulty because they are not programming with the new syntax full time. Practicing at night while the majority of your time is still spent with some other language is not the same thing. This is also true for learning human language and is why immersion programs are so successful.

I think this is spot on. I have a minor quibble that can't adapt ought to actually read find it difficult to adapt for the very reasons specified--it's not a matter of can or cannot, but a reflection of how much time one is actually able to invest in learning, like a human language. Random, sporadic investment into learning French vocabulary won't help much in improving one's ability to actually speak French. Much will be forgotten that way.

Immersion is definitely the best model for picking up any new [programming] language. Each language I use with measurable proficiency--Python, Objective-C, C#, JavaScript, French, English, etc.--is in that list because I actually took on tasks in which that was the language I had to use. Each language I've messed around with on the side for fun/experimentation/curiosity--Mandarin Chinese, Lisp, Haskell, Java, etc.--is barely worth mentioning.

[martinced]

> I strongly suspect that the people who can't adapt are having difficulty because they are not programming with the new syntax full time.

That is very interesting. It took me indeed may months of night-time programming in Clojure and elisp to get at a point where I could feel confortable with the syntax. I had a series of small "enlightenment" during that journey: the last one was not long ago, when I realized how I could "carry" state through a high-order function.

But to stay focused I kept reading and re-reading great writing about Lisp by Paul Graham and kept viewing and re-viewing amazing videos by Rich Hickey.

It's as with everything: keep your eyes on the goal, not on the obstacles.

And at one point things are going to click in.