[nirvana]

If you run a successful business in holland, and pay yourself a salary out of it, your tax rate is over %70! And on top of that, you have %20 VAT. And this isn't even going into the manifold fees and other types of taxes you are subjected to.

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This comment is not spam. It had a nice positive score until the socialists arrived. Of course, socialists being unable to deal with reality (or history!) must censor those who point out simple facts that undermine their ideology. And so this comment has been downvoted to obscurity (-15 at this moment) to make it less likely others would be made aware of the high tax rates in holland.

This kind of dishonesty and censorship is why you can't have fruitful discussion on hacker news. The site is overrun by ideologues and moderated by ideologues and anything that doesn't strictly toe to the fascist modern ideology gets the boot.

Ok, just accept, though, that you're anti-intellectual in a very profound way.

When you can't tolerate people stating inconvenient facts, it's time to admit you're an intellectual coward.

Frankly, I think you're all shit. You've elected a guy who claims he has the right to kill any american with a drone strike, in america, without any due process.

And you're so proud of it! It's astounding. You should be ashamed. Profoundly ashamed.

But know this, it is your cowardice and intellectual dishonesty that caused the state of affairs we find ourselves in. Run away to amsterdam if you like, see how long it remains nice.

[walshemj]

Why would you include corp taxes in that.

I looked at Amsterdam as a move and it was about the same as the UK and other European states, and as I have the max years in for the uk pension scheme I was temped to move to Holland to buildup a second pension there.

The lack of a VCT's, CGT exemption and taper relief is an issue for smaller investors - Seems to me that the ducth have a lot of german style Mittelstand companies and cgt/taxsystems is trageted at that .

and the 30% rule ie 30% of you salary is disregarded for 10 years for migrant workers is an amazing tax break(http://www.expatax.nl/30ruling.php#.UTnYdjfRqE8)

[mtrimpe]

Also, if you're Dutch, entrepreneurial and working in IT you will usually be a freelancer.

That means that you get to deduct expenses on working equipments, business lunches, hosting, travel costs, etc.

On top of that if you're in an innovative industry you'll get another €20k or so tax deduction (WBSO & RDA.)

In general that means that for innovative entrepreneurs it's fairly easy to get to an effective tax rate of about 10%.

[nirvana]

Ok, so you don't pay %50 on 1/3rd of your salary for 10 years. I wouldn't exactly call that "an amazing tax break". You're still paying way too much in taxes.

[walshemj]

um you do know how to calculate % do you this is effectively adding 30% tax free to the base you do not get taxed at 52% on all the rest you still have the tired tax rates as well as the 30%

And by that time id have moved back to the UK :-)

[ako]

Depends on what you get in return...

[inbys]

Tax rates in continental Europe can indeed be steep compared to UK and US. In the Netherlands the top rate is 'only' 52%, not 70%. Most people, especially company owners, pay much less.

[yread]

Yep. And only the income above ~ €56,491 will be taxed by 52% so your average tax rate will be much lower

[dlib]

Especially since the rent on your mortgage is deductible. Adding to that, expats have extra tax discounts (30% ruling).

[ddbryant]

Let's not make up numbers... Income tax is high here (not 70%) but you know, you get what you pay for. If you're American the 30% rule kicks in as long as you are here on a dutch american treaty visa or sponsored by a company. Any American can start a company here and get a 1 year visa. That's a pretty low barrier or entry compared to most countries. Corporate tax is also incredibly low, with a ton of benefits for the first 3 years you are a b.v. (dutch corp)

[NonEUCitizen]

You don't to be American to qualify for 30% rule. You have to be an expat who qualifies as a Knowledge Worker, and was recruited to Netherlands for that purpose (if you were already living in the Netherlands when you got the job, you don't qualify). You can avail of the 30% rule for 10 years.

http://www.expatica.com/nl/finance_business/tax/The-Dutch-30...

[nirvana]

Those aren't made up numbers. I actually did the math based on my income. How about you stop being a dishonest coward who characterizes your opponent, rather than making an argument, hmm?

You don't get what you pay for, of course, if you bothered to actually add up what you really do pay, and what you really do get, but then that is the essential swindle isn't it? You and all the rest of the thieves like to pretend like it's better to pay government $20,000 a year for services the free market would happily deliver for $20. And then you act as if those of us who point out we're getting ripped off are "greedy", or in your case-- dishonest.

Well, if you have to lie to make an argument, that tells me even you know your argument is the suck.

[meepmorp]

> How about you stop being a dishonest coward who characterizes your opponent

Ahem.

[mryan]

Would you be interested in posting the numbers you used for your calculations? I appreciate it is confidential information, but I find it very difficult to believe your tax rate is 70%.

If you are in fact paying 70% of your income in taxes, I can recommend an accountant who can advise on a more efficient tax strategy.

I would prefer it if you didn't reply and call me a socialist, or complain that I am dishonest - I have no horse in this race, I am merely pointing out that if you are in fact paying 70% tax, you could save a lot of money by talking to an accountant who specialises in tax efficiency.

[__--__]

Why all the hostility? People are asking you where you got your numbers, which is reasonable considering your comment provided two percentages and nothing else. Your unwillingness to back up your opinions with facts that we can check and verify marks you as an intellectual coward as well. Stop calling the commenters names and engage in the conversation, please.

I'd also like to know where your numbers are coming from, since I'm in the middle of deciding where to found my first company and any information that strays away from what is popular tends to get my attention.

[bvdbijl]

You can't just add percentages like that...

[netrus]

20% of your net income, so it's half as bad :)

Plus, if your cool startup should not succeed and you get ill: Don't worry, everything will be fine :)

[nirvana]

Milton Friedman did a study of healthcare in the USA, and found that the government "help" had driven up the cost 26fold and driven down availability. Or put another way, the reason people could get bankrupted by an illness is socialized medicine, and it's also the reason they might not be able to find care when they need it. Contrary to what Obama says, socialism doesn't work, and if you think you'll get better healthcare in the NL than in the USA, you'll have a very rude awakening... but of course you won't be alive to post your mea culpas here on HN. Frankly, even assuming this shows a profound ignorance of both history and economics.

[mtrimpe]

You, my friend, seem to be having mental health issues.

We have an excellent support system for that in the Netherlands if you're interested...

[digitalengineer]

Let's add a little balance: Health care in the us can be excellent and yes, better than in the Netherlands. (I'm Dutch by the way and have friends who have flown to the us specifically for healt-related issues. There are stories in the media here about communities saving for sick kids so they can get help in the US. The US is at the forefront of health).

However this excellent care is only available for people who can afford it. In the Netherlands they'll help anyone and they won't ask you for your credit card. No one goes bankrupt because they got ill and needed an operation. Downside of this is they can't help everyone right away and you need to wait some time before it's your turn. I had a nice talk about this with a surgeon for about two hours as he and his team were inserting four big metal tubes in my eye,draind all the fluid before puming it back up again with air and freezing the tissue back together again from the inside. At the end of the year I paid about $350 bucks and got my eysight back. The 350 bucks included all my ckeckup visits.

[dguaraglia]

Milton Friedman is so full of corporate interest, you can probably make two senators out of him.

Seriously, explain how health care in any other 'socialist country' is way cheaper than in the US if government investment drives prices up. I dare you.

[jfb]

You should learn what a marginal tax rate is.

[nirvana]

You should learn to think.