[kyro]

So, both sides have pretty much spoken, and what irks me the most is that the LayerVault guys haven't provided any concrete evidence to support their claims; they've posted vague responses and joked about DMCA'ing their friends on Twitter. There's also the question of why they would even pursue something like this. A simple Risks/Benefits analysis would've surely led most people not to issue a DMCA over a few icons they felt were stolen.

It's hard not to lose a little respect fo the LayerVault guys, even if the icons in question were direct copies. I get you're protective of your art, but this doesn't really make sense from a business standpoint, and their response has been less than convincing. It's really disappointing.

[DanBC]

I could understand a DMCA if the icons were direct copies and if FlatUI had not responded to any email requests.

Even then it's a good idea to put up a quick and easy comparison sheet.

But for things like "3 cogs" (cogs are different sizes, different colours, different numbers of teeth, different orientation) it's ridiculous to DMCA it. 3 Cogs is so generic that it's an annoyance to engineers. (Because the cogs are usually drawn in such a way that they cannot possibly turn).

HN is generally pretty good when people rip off a design. Even people like me (who have very little idea about design) respect the amount of work and expertise that goes on. But it's because I have so little clue about design that people need to explain the similarities. If you're the first people to curl a newspaper under then tell me that. Show me what people used to do, and how you innovated that.

[L4mppu]

Comparison image for anyone who is interested. http://imgur.com/ejGIlx0 Left one is Flat UI and right one is Layer Vault.

[rkuykendall-com]

That is not the Flat UI icon.

I remember it distinctly from launch, the cogs were more inside the circle and in a different orientation: http://venturebeat.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/screen-shot-2...

The three icons removed were the cog, the map, and the twitter face.

Edit: Here is a comparison image from further down the page: http://imgur.com/IH1osAD

[nobleach]

Anyone else troubled by the idea of three interlocking cogs? I mean, it's an icon meaning deadlock, right?

[JungleGymSam]

That would make sense if all three cogs were interlocked but they are not. The top two cogs are not close enough to each other.

[DanBC]

Yes! It's something that makes me twitch each time I see it.

I know other people have discussed it, but my search engine skills are too weak to find anything at the moment.

[fnordfnordfnord]

KDE has been using similar gear iconography for at least a dozen years. http://www.google.com/search?q=kde+gears+icon

[naner]

Is this the best example of the "infringement"? If that's the best they got than Layer Vault are looking pretty foolish (insecure, full of themselves, etc). What a joke.

[simonlc]

> HN is generally pretty good when people rip off a design.

Remember Svbtle?

[DanBC]

Yes. Many people supported dcurtis and were angry at the blatant rip off. Also, many people were annoyed at dcurtis and felt he brought it on himself by acting like an idiot.

[hackmiester]

I don't. Can you explain?

[DanBC]

An HN member created a new blog thing; invite only; very designery. They were trying to build a brand for great writing. The way it was presented to the HN audience was sub-optimal - "Here's the great new shiny thing. You can't use it, you're all stupid."

Someone very quickly ripped it off.

There was intense discussion. Some people felt it's fair game to rip off the design. Other people felt it was a poor copy. Others were angry that it was such a blatant rip off (especially because it was so bad).

I've tried to describe this as neutrally as possible, but I understand it will sound pretty biased.

[naner]

Here's an example of

a svbtle page: http://benyu.org/net-worth

obtvse page: http://jackdempsey.me/migrating-to-obtvse

wp-svbtle: http://wp-svbtle.themeskult.com/

I believe obtvse at the time of the dispute was more directly ripping off svbtle than it is now, but I could be misremembering.

The unintentional pretentiousness of svbtle was amusing at the time and I can remember the urge to create a clone and replace the dammned kudos hover trap with a fontBomb[1].

1: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4208102

[C1D]

See here http://howells.ws/posts/view/93/svbtle-vs-obtvse-and-on-copy...

[xcasex]

Hello. The way that works, you have to infer the existence of A for the existence of B and the existence of B for the existence of A.

Direct copies only work as an argument if the item is an Original, as in the idea of a thing wholly onto itself without an external influence of any sort.

you might argue that it's derived as in Originated from, borrowed from, a sourced to, an antecedent of, an allusion towards. I could continue. sort of like how Star Wars Episode II and Star Wars Episode I are derived from Star Wars Episode IV. :)

[EwanToo]

Star Wars Episode 1 and 2 contain exact characters and other creative designs from Episode 4/5/6.

Not "like" them, not derivative of them, but actually them (e.g. Yoda).

So yeah, that would be a direct copy.

[xcasex]

It would actually be a derivative of ep VI, since the characters and creative designs differ and precede it.

A direct copy, would be the _exact_same_ characters as depicted in ep VI, but alas they are not, they are however similar to, which makes it a derivative of.

[jerf]

Judges, the people who arbitrate copyright disputes in the end, are humans, not computer programs. I don't think that if you tried to rip off Yoda, but made slight alterations to his face wrinkles, that you're going to convince a judge that it's something other than Yoda. A judge is not going to see Yoda as anything other than the same character through all six movies, no matter how many differences between the 3D model in the Phantom Menace and the 3D model in Attack of the Clones a "diff" command might find.

[FooBarWidget]

You can lose your rights if you don't protect them. Given this, businesses pretty much have to protect their work, or they'll run into bigger problems later.

[ahupp]

That only applies to trademark, not copyright.

[mortenjorck]

If you'll indulge a little contextual Show HN, I made a single-page site that lays out the differences between the three major IP law domains: http://iplaws.info

[Smudge]

Sorry, but your site uses a gears icon: http://iplaws.info/img/mechanical.png

Clearly this infringes on LayerVault's copyright.