[j_baker]

You're strawmanning.

Uncle Bob isn't saying "If you aren't using TDD at the startup phase, you suck!" What he's saying is "Just because you're in the startup phase and think you're invincible doesn't mean you should throw best practices out the window." There are good excuses for not using TDD, and I tend to agree that "We're in a startup phase. We don't have time for this crap." isn't one of them.

[thetrumanshow]

Had I opened with "Interesting article, but tangentially..." then we'd still disagree, but maybe we could have avoided the straw-man ding. :)

[j_baker]

You're right. Then we'd have a passive-aggressive ding. The only thing you would have to add to make it perfect would be "...but I'd never claim the author is trying to do that."

[derefr]

I wouldn't even call it passive-aggressive; it's soapboxing, plain and simple.

> This article is about X. But I don't care what the article says about X. I have something to say about X, and by God, I'm going to say it.

--But I don't know that this is a particularly problematic thing to be happening in a threaded comment system, since people can get sidetracked by "soapbox issues" in a subthread while letting the "parent conversation" continue around them. It's just kind of confusing for people who treat this place like a linear-chronological message-board that discusses one topic at a time.

[thetrumanshow]

I concur.

There are n-ways to join in a conversation, but the more direct experience you have, the better you will be able to field certain types of discussion. So, experts and expert debaters will dive right in and attack the topic head-on. More timid souls will wait in the wings and hope that someone will say something that they can directly respond to with confidence.

Sometimes you have to be slightly shameless if you want to join in a conversation. Stating an opinion (soap-boxing) does feel a bit like cheating the system. But I would argue its slightly better than standing on the sideline.

[j_baker]

Honestly, if your opinions were at least novel, I probably wouldn't have said anything. I've heard the same old debate many times before and frankly, it gets old. Especially when people make tangentially-related topics into being about TDD. Can someone mention TDD in a blog post without dredging up all these old topics?

[funkyboy]

Ok, then. Let's put it in another way. TDD should be used by those who can afford it. Right? I don't think many startups can, that's the point I guess.

[unclebobmartin]

And _my_ point was that startups cannot afford _not_ to adopt TDD. TDD does not take time, it saves time. It saves time _today_.