[keithpeter]

No, I mean the real apprenticeships with companies like Siemens and GKN that you need a minimum of 5 GCSEs to get onto, and that lead to BTEC National Diploma then HND qualifications with 1 year degree conversion.

I accept your point that the word 'apprenticeship' has been made meaningless by our Present Leaders but there is some good stuff out there as well.

[walshemj]

But that is NOT an apprentice that is a Technician (aka Associate professional) doing the a traditional day release course (ONC/HNC/BTEC) for Technicians which is how I came into IT.

Clever apprentices would only go on to do this after doing there 4/5 years.

And ok my BTEC was a some what specialized one (mech eng with Thermofluids) but we looked down on the "apprentices" form the local Garages.

Though I suspect (borrowing John Cleses line) alowing "jumped up F%^&*ing Caterers" to devalue the term that fight is lost.

[keithpeter]

"But that is NOT an apprentice that is a Technician (aka Associate professional) doing the a traditional day release course (ONC/HNC/BTEC) for Technicians which is how I came into IT."

Actually, it is. The Ordinary National Certificate was replaced with the B/TEC National Diploma half a decade before I came into teaching in 1989. You must be a mature person!

And yes, the whole program takes 4 to 5 years. With another couple of full time years for degree top up.

Those programmes do still exist but I agree entirely with your point about the shelf-stacking and mickey mouse stuff the current administration are bringing in (as their political forefathers did in the 1980s).

[walshemj]

cough well I can still recall having to hand load the boot strap into our PDP 11's when the boot loader failed a couple of times.

And remember being dead jealous of the management school at Cranfield having 40!! color pc's donated by HP (this is pre IBM PC) - when we had 4 or 5 total.