[pinaceae]

interesting as this again was done by a deeply disturbed individual, a paranoid schizophrenic.

society since then has not gotten better at identifying threats coming from sick people. down to sandy hook, the completely insane individual is left alone until he/she commits an atrocity.

[k-mcgrady]

I have no specific evidence but I believe society has gotten better and identifying mental health issues and treating them.

>> "down to sandy hook, the completely insane individual is left alone until he/she commits an atrocity"

It's up to family and friends to help identify problems someone they know might be having and it's up to the government to provide adequate support and facilities to treat ill people. People being left alone with their problems until they crack is not just due to people not identifying the problems, it's due to inadequate care options.

[SoftwareMaven]

For functioning people with mental illnesses (well treated or not severe), it has gotten better. For non-functioning people, it has gotten worse, for them and for society. I have a loved one with functioning schizophrenia. She has great care and good support through her family (including one of the most loving big brothers I've had the pleasure to meet), her friends, her church and her school.

But I know if she has a true psychotic break, there is little to no support available beyond a 72 hour evaluation. Jail has become the defector storage place outside of the underside of bridges because there are far too few beds for people who need longer term care.

The state hospitals of the 50s were horrid places, but in dismantling them, we've done away with almost all long-term care for people who can't function due to mental illness. And that comes with a huge cost to society. There was a middle ground of "let's improve the care and treatment" that was completely ignored.

But, as a society, let's not talk about that. Let's talk about whether 11 bullets or 14 buckets are too many, even if a fire extinguisher can be shown to be a horrid weapon to somebody ill enough.

[ufmace]

Reminds me of this article I read after Sandy Hook:

http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unth...

It seems that, every time some mentally ill person does something like this, whether it's a big, splashy mass shooting or bombing or something smaller like this acid attack, you later find out that everybody around that person had known for a long time that they were uncontrollably and irrationally violent at times, but nobody could think of anything to do about it. Just like that article - the boy's own mother is pretty sure that he's going to do something horribly violent someday, but nobody has any idea what to do about him, besides getting him thrown in jail.

I suppose it's a hard problem, if you really think about it. Exactly what should the threshold be for having somebody involuntarily committed to some sort of mental hospital or something, and kept there against their will for their entire life, or until some doctor thinks they're safe again? As I understand it, it was fairly low back in the early 20th century, which led to lots of people being committed, some for various versions of being unpopular or eccentric, into mental hospitals that were real horror-shows. What we have now is the backlash against that, which might be too far in the other direction, where it's almost impossible to get someone committed like that until they commit a serious violent crime.

Where's the happy medium? Or is there one? I don't know... but it's something we all ought to think about.

[Mz]

"Mental health" outcomes are partly a product of social factors. I have a son who is a sociopath. I pulled him out of school and homeschooled in part to avoid having him be the next Columbine in the news. Kids who are different are often treated so badly they have no reason to cooperate with social norms. It is all downside for them, no upside. My son thinks psychologically tormenting people is funny shit and does not feel bad about it later but he generally refrains. He hasn't been consistently tormented himself, so he doesn't carry a lot of anger or baggage to fuel bad behavior, and I taught him "what goes around, comes around." I don't think these negative outcomes are "inevitable," even with kids who have significant mental and emotional differences from the norm.

[specialist]

Based on my recent personal experience, I don't feel that much has improved. Perhaps society is more accepting of the condition, and less likely to stigmatized. But helping a mentally ill person (in the USA) is pretty much not an option. Perhaps I didn't look hard enough.

[k-mcgrady]

>> "But helping a mentally ill person (in the USA) is pretty much not an option."

Could you explain why? Here (the UK) there is quite a lot of free help from the health service and there are a lot of charities I know of which provide counselling. Local GP's are also able to work with people and refer them to specialists if necessary.

[DanBC]

In England:

A person can go to their GP to get treatment, and the GP will either treat (access to short form talking therapies and some medications), or refer on to a community team.

The community team provides access to heavier duty meds; long form talking therapies; ECT; hospitalisation; a variety of different clinicians, etc etc.

Note that treatment can be forced, and against the patient's wishes. Note also that there's the possibility of community treatment orders. These mean that a person living in the community (not in hospital or prison) could also be forced to take medication regularly.

All of this is free at the point of delivery. (With the exception of prescriptions, but there are so many exemptions they're free to most people.)

And let's not forget that people with mental illness are far more likely to be the victims of violent crime, not the perpetrator.

[specialist]

Note also that there's the possibility of community treatment orders.

We don't have that option. And I'm really torn on this one.

And let's not forget that people with mental illness are far more likely to be the victims of violent crime, not the perpetrator.

Absolutely.

[specialist]

Someone close to me has paranoid schizophrenia, undiagnosed.

[Mz]

I think that depends on how you frame the problem. It helps to start with wondering why they do things instead of labeling them "mentally ill" from the get go. But I am sorry to hear of your frustrations.

That is intended to be a helpful observation, not a criticism.

[pyre]

Well, labelling someone as mentally ill is at least a step up from the people the believe stuff like, "I was depressed once, but pulled myself up by the bootstraps, therefore all this depression stuff is a bunch of hogwash!"

[Mz]

Perhaps. Except that much mental illness would be the equivalent of being hit by a car and needing emergency care and possibly months or years of intervention, not getting any of it and then being blamed for their inability to walk. Like they are merely lazy or something.

[blinkingled]

>society since then has not gotten better at identifying threats

The other end of it is society starting to aggressively label and segregate people as "threats". Everyone would have to fit this set of behavior somebody else defined or else they get labeled as threats.

[ljf]

The problem is figuring out who will harm. I know paranoid schizophrenics who have lived a whole life harming no one, some taking treatment, some who manage without it.

We can't condemn these people to a life in jail, just because sometimes bad people do bad things. I agree people should talk about their concerns, and talk with and help people that seem to be going off the rails. But as with everything in human life, there are a million shades of grey.

[monochromatic]

I wonder if there were cries for acid bans in the wake of this.

[jlgreco]

Occasionally when stories about acid attacks reach lesser online forums, the comments will indeed be filled with cries of "why the hell are they even selling acid?". The commenters presumably do not realize that their local hardware store just a few minutes away is selling nasty shit as well.

[_delirium]

If it happened enough I could imagine there being some kind of controls. Bulk purchases of certain kinds of fertilizer were controlled post-Oklahoma-City, for example. On a lower level, some jurisdictions have restrictions on spraypaint sales, in an effort to combat graffiti.

[monochromatic]

There are all kinds of caustic chemical that can be bought in small quantities though. We're not talking about needing a truckload of the stuff to do something horrific.

[pyre]

E.g. in Portland, Oregon you have to show ID to buy spray paint.

[namank]

It has, google "epistemic injustice".

[Mz]

If you are genuinely successful at coping with difficulties of that sort, it typically goes unnoticed. You live a normalish life, not worth remarking upon. If you try to tell people your ordinary life is a grand accomplishment, they think you suffer from something akin to Munchausen Syndrome.

[LatvjuAvs]

Without the incident, there is no heroic life to be lived. There is no lessons to be learned, there is no one left to be saved.

You must see little bit further how everything interacts like a connected cogwheels.

First you have emotional burst, the anger, the sadness, full range of emotions, then, you must go further than that. Then you must see how well it have played out.