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by ptaipale
4862 days ago
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This is getting long and probably not interesting for anyone else. Sure, much of the more extremes in the U.S. is simply that with a larger number of people, the extremes are also further away. But the extremes are there. Why there are not so many socialists in U.S. national politics is surely because of the first-past-the-post system, not because of lack of diversity in the electorate. As to evidence about Gus Hall's parents, that again winds up a bit too far away from the point of this thread, so suffice it to say that I just read some memoir where this was covered, can't find a reference. But his parents came from politically active Tampere, and were founding members of CPUSA. (Incidentally, Tampere was also the place where Lenin and Stalin met for the first time, in 1905, but Okhrana was on their trail and Lenin fled soon after the Halbergs. This is just an anecdote that I find funny, not something that's really evidence about politics today). I'll concede that I can't measure political diversity well enough to convince you without spending too much time and boring anyone. The ethnic diversity was already commented by someone else with some demographic data which is more readily available. |
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> Why there are not so many socialists in U.S. national politics is surely because of the first-past-the-post system, not because of lack of diversity in the electorate.
That can't be the sole reason. I suspect it isn't even the main reason. Who is the modern equivalent to Eugene V. Debs in the national debates? Where is the modern Victor Berger or Meyer London, the only two members of the Socialist Party to be elected to Congress, even with the first-past-the-post system? Is it just Bernie Sanders, an independent, unaffiliated with any party?
(Debs, btw, was arrested for violating the Espionage Act of 1917; a violation of the First Amendment if I ever heard one, Schenck v. United States to the contrary.)
My understanding is that have been decades of concerted effort to suppress the power of labor, for example, by denigrating anything related to socialism, communism, marxism, or even liberal. I agree with the view that FDR could push through the New Deal by pointing out that the socialists and communists wanted much more. To that extent, I think Coughlin's denouncement of FDR as being allied with Wall Street was exaggerated, but generally correct.
(And who is the modern Coughlin, and modern equivalent of the Social Justice movement? The US revoked the second class mailing permit for the Social Justice weekly, under the Espionage Act. Not as harsh as the Russian secret police, but still effective at suppressing political diversity, no?)
I therefore see McCarthyism in part as a deliberate effort to undermine labor - child labor laws and women's suffrage being held up as examples of communist influence in US politics, don't you know.
I agree that Gus Hall's parents have nothing to do with the thread. I thought so when you brought it up. :)
As I said, I don't want to get into the ethnic debate. Sweden's history there is much different than the US history. Sweden's present is also much different than Sweden's history.