[seanmcdirmid]

I program with an IBM Model M keyboard so I can here every keystroke. If you type fast enough, the programmer won't notice intermediate feedback going through 1 10 100. You could even put in a delay but I would hope its not necessary.

As for liveness, I think we disagree on what should be live. I only really care about the feedback loop between the executing program and the programmer editing that program. I don't expect anything else to be live, and actually, it might not even be useful in some cases (e.g., if the program is executing in real-time and is interactive or animated, I have nothing steady to shoot at).

[yaxu]

Nice point about your keyboard, but I'd still contend that a series of fast keystrokes is perceived as a thrum, not necessarily a series of clicks.

If you're programming DSP, then the haptic upper limits of typing is much slower than the limits of aural perception. But I understand more about what you mean by "steady frame" now.

Yes I think you're right in our point of disagreement. In Chris Nash's terms, you're interested in liveness solely in terms of manipulation-driven feedback loop, and I'm interested in it predominantly in terms of performance-driven feedback loop, and only secondarily in manipulation-driven feedback.

The diagrams at the end of this paper might clarify: http://www.eecs.umich.edu/nime2012/Proceedings/papers/217_Fi...

(I've seen a more detailed version of this somewhere, maybe his PhD thesis)